Time for Farage to "take a break"?

Sve

He will waffle on about how they are the ones who do not have free movement and that they cannot work in Europe or elsewhere, when I have already debunked his arguments about both.

IronGiant

Time to back off Sve

Sve

Noted .

Sonic67

Perhaps because they never won 4 million votes before?

Sonic67

I am surprised at the way you go on about disenfranchisement and back FPTP! Despite your views the public is actually getting a say.
A straw man argument. Carry it forward and your argument means we should extend the vote to anyone capable of making a mark. Would three year olds having a say be better then? After all it is more having a say. As already stated 18 year olds are considered adults. Adults for an adult decision that you didn't want to happen.

Schoolkids are affected by the government in power and their policies on education. So why not give them the vote? Toddlers are affected by money allocated to the NHS. Should they vote?
Hey I at least back democracy. You didn't want the referendum in the first place, you repeatedly want to skew the results and thought the Conservatives being in and holding a referendum would be an unmitigated disaster! Are there any other ways you want to skew things? Only if you are trying to skew the results that isn't actually democracy.

Rasczak

We've yet to see the consequences of a referendum yet - possibly increased xenophobia, certainly a waste of money (given the inevitable result to stay in) and a great deal of uncertainty for business. The last thing anyone needs at a time of fragile economic recovery.

If its any consolation, I'm sure the same argument was applied when the proposal was made to lower the franchise from 21 to 18.

Sonic67

I think business will benefit from the question being actually settled. It should have been years ago. Have the referendum early if necessary.

By the way do you consider all referendums a waste of money? The Irish just had one on gay marriage. A waste then?
I will accept it is a valid argument when 16 year olds are considered mature enough to go to adult prisons, buy alcohol, watch violent films, go to war etc. How could it be right that 16 year olds could vote on whether 18 year olds could be part of a Euro army that could send them to war? The reason why we don't send under 18 year olds to war is it kicks off an outcry over "child soldiers". If at 16 you are being regarded as still "a child" then how are you mature enough to vote?

Either they are mature at 16 in which case they can go to war and serve in an adult prison or you are mature at 18.

nabby

I agree with everything you say, except for the point that a full-time working 16 or 17 year old pays national insurance and income tax, the same as anyone else 18 or older. So they are effectively paying into a system they have no say on. In itself that's not necessarily a strong enough argument to give them the franchise but it's a point worth noting.

EarthRod

It's the word 'mature' that I get stuck on.

Maturity kicks in after experiencing some of the responsibilities, trials and tribulations of life, so the age of maturity should be 30 years old. Age of 20 become an adult, but the age of 30 become a mature adult just beginning to learn some of the answers (rather than knowing all the answers which all young people do).

Can't vote until the age of 30.

Sonic67

If it comes to it if you pay VAT then you are paying into a system you have no say on and you pay that on a lot of things. I have no problem with the age being lowered to 16 but then it should apply to everything. If you aren't considered old enough to fight or go to prison or lots of other things you aren't considered old enough for then how can you be mature for somethings but not for others?

Besides most 17 year olds aren't working and are in education or if they are they are working they are probably on some kind of YTS which is low paid and probably barely taxed etc. Traditional apprenticeships went a long time ago.