Time for Farage to "take a break"?

Rasczak

No, I said party literature:

Anyway, to get to your substantive post:
Having firmly got a grip let me tackle some of your points:

* You mention wages. If we leave the EU and there is no guarantee a future party won't repeal the minimum wage. At present its secured by EU law (Lisbon overrode the Social Charter 'opt out' for those about to smash their keyboards!).

* Extending the wage discussion into jobs - at present your "children and grandchildren, nieces and nephews" can freely move and work wherever they want in the EU. You're in the North East right? Economically devastated and politically abandoned. It will never get better. Do you really want to deny your young relatives the future they could make themselves by moving elsewhere?

* I am yet to meet a Romanian or Pole who has come to this country to work that can't speak English.

* You mention the NHS. Yes its very easy to blame the immigrant community but actually the number of foreign workers within the system is essential to keep it running. The EU is particularly important for filling the low paid health worker roles.  Would you really want your "children and grandchildren, nieces and nephews" aspiring to little more than emptying bedpans?

Can I also moot something else to you. Clearly you want a good future for your "children and grandchildren, nieces and nephews" - but many of the jobs these 300,000 immigrants come to do are surely not the jobs you want for your relatives. I have a friend who is a farmer in Lincolnshire - for short periods in the year he employs around 300 seasonal workers to harvest his crops and handle some of the particularly burdensome livestock work. By far and away the workers are East European immigrants. Not because he choses to employ them above others - but because few from the local populace want to do the job even though it pays the living, rather than minimum, wage. Why? Because it involves turning to at 0430 and wading around in muck and dirt in somecases doing a fiddly job regardless of the weather.

Why do I moot this scenario? Well, you're in the North East which will inevitably see some reduction in employment from leaving the EU - if nothing else reduced tourism (a major industry in your parts!) when the free movement is curtailed. UKIP's policy meanwhile is to get those UK citizens on UK benefits to "do the jobs these low paid immigrants do". So putting that all in the mix then - if your "children and grandchildren, nieces and nephews" can't get jobs, should they be turned to wading in the muck and filth of the farmer's fields? One to mull over perhaps?

Other than a strong UK economy and the benefits of free movement that make it easier to indulge in my passion of travelling, I don't benefit from the EU anymore than the next person.

Sve

The only party threatening to remove the minimum wage is your beloved tories.

If they have the skills and experience they could move anyway, I have 2 siblings who have done this, one has lived in Australia for over 25 years and has a highly paid job working for one of the biggest companies in the world. The other one has worked in Egypt, the USA and Macau for one of the largest casino and hotel groups in the world and earns a salary most people can only dream about. So your argument is moot. There is a wider world out there than just the EU.

Watch the news, read the papers speak to headmasters/mistress/ teachers especially in the inner cities where there is a large immigrant population (not just Poles & Romanian) they will tell you, your just burying your head in the sand.

If that is the only job available they like everyone else in this country will have to do it, however the NHS do not just employ low paid immigrants they also employ doctors, nurses, etc who are qualified and I have no problem with.

Crap, how did we manage before we had open doors, locals did the work, I too have a friend who's father owns one of the largest farms in Lincolnshire and they manage quite well without employing many immigrants most of his employees are locals and according to him with continue to be so. I have shown my children and grandchildren hard work is nothing to be afraid of, I work outside in all weathers sometimes up at 2.30am for a 4am start not finishing until 6pm sometimes coming home rather dirty and tired or they come round for their tea and ask where I am I may have stated at 4pm and not due to finish until good knows when, its not just immigrants who work long hours or do dirty jobs.

Do you have any proof employment will go down, no its all scaremongering by Europhiles like you. Rubbish why would tourism go down because we leave the EU it will not, you just do not visit a country because it is not part of the EU.

How do we have free movement? I have just come back from Spain, I had my passport checked here in the UK and had it checked twice when I landed in Spain, the Spanish knew I was a UK citizen and that my passport had been checked to verify this yet I still had to get it checked there twice, that is not free movement its exactly like when my grand parents went to Spain or elsewhere in Europe before we joined.

Another curve ball.

Sonic67

In that case your argument applies to all. So how about it? Toddlers too? In fact it applies to unborn children as well. How about those thinking of having children having extra votes. Won't someone think of the children?

Sonic67

They are linked for many.
You are free to vote how you wish and discuss what you like.

If it comes to it Green issues tend to be down the list (not even on the link). They still come up. Or is that something else that you don't want discussed? I thought you liked to post about climate change?
Not really in dispute at all. From your own link, oh sorry it was actually my link, but anyway, Europe/EU very/fairly important for 78% of people.

Hows your maths? That sounds like quite a few.
Then you should vote for someone else. 78% of the electorate thinks otherwise. Other parties are available. Or are you saying such a topic and such parties should be banned? What exactly?
Funnily enough in a poll in General Chat UKIP came second after the Conservatives. Didn't you always like to quote the polls on here?

Iain42

@Sve.

I think you make some great points.  Politically I believe that you are a long way to the left of me (correct me if I'm wrong) and this illustrates why which way anyone voted in the General Election cannot be taken as an indication of which way they'll vote in an EU referendum, except for those voting UKIP who can be regarded as voting to come out.

It will be interesting to see if we get a fair and balanced discussion when it comes. Personally I expect to see a lot of scaremongering, and fantasy figures plucked from the air, like Nick Clegg's 3 million jobs figure. Does anyone seriously believe that the EU will pull up the drawbridge to trade if we leave?

Cliff

A very surprising point of view. In as many words you are saying we should import cheap workforce to do dirty jobs?

Take a step back and think about what you are proposing. It is already being done in the Middle East. Every builder, road construction, road sweeper,farmer, even camel herder now is done by an Indian. Because they get up at 4.30 am, work hard, do almost anything and are paid very little. Same for doctors nurses and hospital workers.
The indigenous populations have a mindset that work will be done by foreigners. This thinking starts from birth as the maid/ nanny was probably Indonesian. Any repairs, home improvements will be done by foreigners.

Now of course the governments see a big social problem with their youth not wanting real work (unless it's running the business).
So they have a quota system so a company must employ at least 60% indigenous.
So, yes the picture you have painted actually operates else where, but it is not the way to go.

Sve

Thanks, I am more to the left of you, but I do have some right wing views so I would say I on the left of centre but not by much.

I do not think we will get a balanced discussion/argument when you have posters on here who think the sun shines out of the EU's backside and the UK will suddenly sink in to the middle ages if we leave the EU.

DC, GO and Clegg all believe in the EU so we are at a disadvantage straight away, you can be clear that there will be a myriad of lies, untruths and downright laughable figures spouted when the time comes for the discussion.

No they will not, we are their largest trading partner so if they do all they will be doing is hurting their economies and doubt that would go down well with their electorate.

It could all be a moot point anyway, there are strong rumours are that there will be a major announcement elsewhere in Europe within the next 7 days which could shake the EU to its core.

Rasczak

I think the point you are making is that a line has to drawn somewhere. You are right. But the Scottish referendum showed it can be very successfully drawn at 16 and now the precedent has been set I am not sure it is right and proper to reverse it. Putting aside the question of whether it is done for this referendum or not, we complain about voter apathy and the young not being engaged - so perhaps extending the franchise is a way to do that.

Rasczak

I didn't say cheap - indeed I was quite particular in that I quote a living wage example. The challenge is finding a suitably motivated domestic workforce and unfortunately our society isn't able to grow that at home anymore.

Sve

More crap, our population is growing without the need to have net 300K.