Public Sector Pay & Pensions - Time For Reality?

Jezza99

There is an increasing clamour from Public Sector workers for a substantial pay rise, as they feel hard done by because their pay rises have been capped over the last 7 years or so.

Ignoring for a moment that Private Sector workers have had to endure similar, if not greater pay restraint over the same timescale, is it now time to have an honest conversation with the Public Sector on their overall package?

It is clear from some of the recent discussions on here that Public Sector workers consistently underestimate the value of their pension schemes, and also have no understanding of how they are funded.

Should we now negotiate a pay increase in return for an acceptance of a 21st Century pension entitlement, or would that be a pointless undertaking that the Public Sector unions would refuse to discuss, and just threaten to strike over?

Fact check - Public Sector pension liabilities have now reached £1.8 TRILLION.

Public sector retirement bill soars to £1.8 trillion

sebbykin

Nah, I think the public sector (NHS in particular) just needs to be funded correctly as when Aneurin Bevan established it. Society hasn't changed much so let's throw lots more money at it and not change a thing...ever

logiclee

Supply and demand.

Private sector if you want to recruit new staff but can't and are struggling to retain staff you have to alter working practices or sweeten the package.

It looks like we are getting that way with front line Police, Prison Services and front line NHS staff.
So as a society we need to decide how we achieve this and how we fund it if we want to retain the services.

And yes I'm a private sector Engineer in the same boat trying to recruit and retain staff.

Lee

Faust

Public sector pensions are now a shadow of their former self.  They have been watered down since 2012 and the current Alpha scheme is poor indeed.

You appear to think that public sector workers get this gold plated pension - no doubt due to the exaggerations in the DM and DE etc.  A huge proportion of public sector workers are women and the average pension for the 'real coal face workers' e.g. front line DWP staff is little more than 5.5K

Don't mix up Whitehall mandarins for your average PS worker.

The pay of PS workers has fallen behind that of their private sector counterparts in recent years - fact.  Most PS workers are now thousands of pounds worse off than they were at the start of 2010 - fact.

Goooner

Most private sector pensions are a lot worse of since Gordon Brown's pension raid too.

KiLLiNG-TiME

Perhaps a helpful fact check is useful here seeing as the only way some can look is backwards but not quite far enough

FactCheck: Did Gordon destroy our pensions? - Channel 4 News

And, as FactCheck pointed out last year, Gordon Brown wasn't the first chancellor to use this source of funding. Although Gordon Brown was the one who abolished ACT, one of his predecessors had already taken a chunk out of it: Tory Chancellor Norman Lamont cut the rate of ACT from 25 to 20 per cent in his 1993 budget.

So, while Gordon Brown did change the tax regime in a way that disadvantaged pensions, the impact of his changes has been much exaggerated.

Goooner

So private sector pensions are in fact worse of because of GB then.

KiLLiNG-TiME

Indeed yes but did you read the verdict

Verdict
The nation's pensions are in a state - though not so bad as is sometimes imagined. And Gordon Brown's 1997 budget did take some money out of the pension system.

But to suggest that he 'comprehensively, single-handedly destroyed' the nations pensions is an absurd exaggeration.

It's particularly ironic that a Conservative chancellor also delivered a smaller but very similar blow to the pension system in 1993.

Faust

A statistic with zero context.

For how many years service do they get that amount? And for what contribution? Is it index linked? Did they get a cash free lump sum? Dependents benefits? At what age could they take it.

On its own that figure means nothing.

Iain42

Well here's one to be going on with.  A few years old now but pensions have only gotten worse since then not better.

The likes of the DM etc. love to lump in the high earners, Judiciary etc.  This skews the figures for the vast majority.

As regards index linked, well I laughed at that one.  I have a PS pension as well as private.  Last year the PS got a 1% rise, my pension increased by..............1%.

What is an average public sector pension?

This is another link that puts it around £7,000 - makes an interesting read actually.

Are public sector pensions too generous?