Does Labour have a problem with Anti-semitism?

Cliff

It started with Mr Corbyn himself and his casual connections with Palestinian figures.
That was historical, but then to bring things up to date,  Mr McDonnell said "Anti-Semitism is racism, full stop. As an MP I will do everything in my power to build relations between Muslims, Jews and people of different faiths and none." The party said anti-Semitism would not be tolerated. Those guilty of, would be shown the door.

Along comes Naz Shah, a rising star, MP for Bradford and working for McDonnell. In an old post she suggested that Israel and the Jews should be relocated to America. For the Arabs, problem solved!

Of course the labour party had already said they would act swiftly to stamp out anti -Semitism. So why did Corbyn dither?  He felt it was OK?
Anyway, after much dithering she was eventually suspended.

Ken Livingston waded in yesterday and today.. and to be fair he has ''form"... After a rather public row he has been suspended as well!

It has also been noted that in Europe there is a rather nasty smell connected with many of the political groups on the left. Is there something institutional ... I think that's the term these days?

Ken Livingstone suspended by Labour Party in 'anti-Semitism' row - BBC News

robel

Undoubtedly. Just short of being state sponsored.

robel

I have a very small amount of sympathy for Ken Livingstone.

Criticism of the state of israel and its policies is not the same as racism towards Jews.  But the problem is that the two things are conflated by the pro Israeli lobby, to try and stamp out criticism.

As Livingstone said on a news show I saw earlier, criticising the government of South Africa would not be seen as racist but criticising the government of Israel is.

johntheexpat

So if Jews, Zionism and Israel are all different, where does Hitler and the Holocaust fit in?

robel

I'm sure, here on these forums not so long ago, we agreed that criticism of the policies of the state of Israel wasn't anti-Semitic.

tapzilla2k

Is that a trick question?

I genuinely don't know what you are trying to get at.

tapzilla2k

Thats worrying.

Ok, KL wants to criticize Israeli policy and how Naz Shah´s comment were ok and to do with Israel. KL then goes on to talk about Hitler and his plan with Zionists. People say that you can criticize Israeli policy and its not Jew hatred. So who did Hitler massacre? Jews? Zionists? Palestinians? (As Jews were known pre 60´s) or Israelis? People say its separate but clearly KL is saying that its all the same.

When Shah suggested transporting Israeli´s to the US, did she mean the Christian, Muslim, Druze and other minorities that make up close to 25% of Israels population? Or just Jews?

stanga

Oh.

I'm not defending Naz Shah.

I'm making no comment on the holocaust or Hitler.

I'm simply saying I have a small amount of sympathy with Livingstone when he says that criticism of the state of Israel is not the same as hatred of Jews.  I hope that is clear now.

Ed Selley

This car crash has been in motion for several months, Corbyn's had his head in the sand about it.
It's a crisis for Corbyn's leadership not the Labour Party. The anger amongst the grassroots over what Ken said today is palpable. Anti semitism can and will be rooted out of the Labour party with or without Corbyn. Otherwise I'm joining the monster raving loony party or starting up my own version of it.

I have none. He's got past form on this and If I'm honest he should have been kicked out over his comments about the mental health of a Labour MP he disagreed with.

You can legitimately question the choices of the Israeli Government (I've done so in the past and will do so in future), but when you start talking about Jews and Israel outside of the governance of Israel then it tends to slide into anti-semitism.

The language Ken Livingstone uses towards Jews has always been hostile, he's not an impartial critic of Israel. Calling Hitler a Zionist is about as anti-semitic as you can get.

tapzilla2k

Personally I can't stand Livingstone.

But I'll say again, the only point on which I have sympathy with him is that criticism of the state of Israel is not the same as racism against Jews.