Public sector pay cap scrapped. Elections time?

Sonic67

Ha ha, accidentally used the same analogy.

ashenfie

The hole pay system seam broken. Having a National pay system makes no sense. It need to be based a area and by supply and demand. It does cost much to live in Bolton, but x10 more in London. So how does that work?

dms

They'd just become more and more corrupt.  Frankly I'd rather pay them more and treat them the way the Chinese do if they demonstrated corruption.  I wish MPs could be put above money and personal ambition and actually do the best for their constituents and the country.... but even in the situation we're in now we're seeing plenty of MPs who are in it for themselves every step of the way.

dms

I wasn't sure how he did it either.. but the inflation calculation was wrong anyway ;-)

I was trying to find a new story people wouldn't quibble about but ran gave up after a guardian one from last year.

Teachers' pay in England down by 12% in 10 years, influential study reveals

Anyways, the exact figure isn't as important as the message.  Below inflation wage increases means that compounded over the years those professions are falling further and further behind what their salary is "worth" compared to the country.

Same happened to me in the private sector though, I went 10 years without a pay increase because I preferred to keep the job and I could see the difference in buying power I had.

The very difficult question to answer is "what is the right salary for a given Government funded worker in whatever role TODAY".

Sonic67

How are applications or employment figures? If people are leaving for a better job or are not coming in in the first place then higher pay might sort it or you could improve the conditions.

rustybin

You get more for working in London.

dms

Sticking with teachers (I know a load of them across the country/generations ;-)

Retaining and developing the teaching workforce - National Audit Office (NAO)

Applications wise they can't, ahem, get the staff (50% of vacancies taken with someone without another experience, 10% not filled at all), the staff tend to leave the profession rather than stick it to the end (8% leaving other than for retirement).

Also the population has been increasing more than usual, I seem to recall a feel good Olympics boom which everyone spoke about would happen but which the Government/schools didn't plan for (where I used to live one new "school" was temporary buildings in a car park as they couldn't handle the kids, that town was popular with commuters so that brought in young people from around the country and then their kids); and clearly we're not getting enough new teachers to cope.

I don't know any two teachers who agree on what to do and frankly I don't hear them complain about money because they always have some other problem they want to talk about instead.

Personally I know full well most of them are bored as anything during the summer... I would reduce the summer holiday down drastically (knock of effect good for working families and the economy!) and spread the curriculum over the extra weeks which would hopefully reduce the workload of teachers during the non holiday weeks.... but I wouldn't do it without speaking to teacher representatives even if I had the power because one thing every teacher I know agrees on is they are sick of Government mandates changes...

nheather

You have to understand how public sector pay scales work.  What is reported is not always the full story.  Certainly applies to some, but is not the whole truth.

Information on public pay scales is readily available - look here for example

NHS pay scales 2017-18 | Royal College of Nursing

So you can see that there are 12 nursing bands starting from £15k going up to £100k.  Clearly those bands aren't available to all, I'm not at all saying that you can simply progress from £15k to £100k.

But say you are on a band - let's say Band 5.  That goes from £22.1k to £28.7k in 7 increments.

Now each year, provided your performance is satisfactory you will go up a step in the band.  So if you are £25,551 you will go up to £26,565 (a 3.9% pay rise).

Additionally, each year the whole band should go up to counter inflation.  So actually, if the whole band went up by 1% you would go from £25,551 to £26,830 (a 5% pay rise).

But this is where the pay freeze comes in.  The pay freeze has stopped the inflationary rises so the rungs in the bands have remained at the same amount.

However, this does not necessary stop pay increases.  If you are not at the top of the band you will still increase to the next rung and get the pay increase that goes with it.  So in my example you will get the 3.9% increase for going to next rung but you won't get the extra 1% because of the pay freeze.

So it is not a wholesale pay freeze, many, maybe most will still receive pay increases as they progress up the band.  It is when you get to the top of the band and you do not want to or are not able to secure a job that will take you onto the next band that the true freeze cuts in.  If you are at top of the band (£28,746 in the case of Band 5) and unable to move into a Band 6 role then you will be stuck on £28,746.

So if the OP's wife really has not had a pay increase for 9 years it means that she has been stuck at the top of band for all of that time, which is not impossible, but perhaps she should be questioning why she has not be able to secure a promotion to a higher band in that time.  If genuinely stuck at the top of band for 9 years despite desire and attempts for promotion, which I sure does happen, then that is a sad situation and I am very sorry for her.

Cheers,

Nigel

weaviemx5

This is the exact situation. The only opportunity to move up into the next band is to move into the Deputy Manager role (which is not vacant).  After that is the Manager role (which is also not vacant).  My wife is a nurse and trained for that role so wishes to perform that role, not be an administrative Manager.  As a result, her pay has been frozen for 9 years so the new amazing (up to) 2% pay rise isn't the fantastic opportunity some would believe.

domtheone

Not at all.  Complain as they wish.   It's just not the be all and end all, that's all.

Even though those nurses may have had a rough time of it, at least their voice is heard (though not listened to) via the likes of the BBC.  Others are not so lucky.