Public sector pay cap scrapped. Elections time?

IronGiant

He's said he's leaving you to it, (again) so let him go quietly, please.

Alps

Here's the viewpoint of a Civil Servant who's been in the job for far too long and has managed a team for the last 5 years.

Firstly, no but's, if's or maybe's - the pay freeze / cuts have had and are having a massive impact on the majority of staff. It is absolutely shocking what I hear from some of my guys. A pay freeze / cut for 9 years has led one of my guys to severe depression and suicidal thoughts. No doubt there are many others like him throughout the public sector struggling and suffering every single day. It's horrific. I agree, this happens in other sectors too, but this is a thread about the public sector pay.

Where I work, a lot of staff are absolutely lazy, stupid, incompetent, conniving imbeciles who will scrounge off the government (effectively the tax payer) as much as possible. I would not employ most of them. And I know what the public's opinion is of the public sector - any to be brutal, it is a fair opinion in most.

But the flip side is those who come in as public sector workers, do an absolutely brilliant job, even in the most difficult of circumstances - both at work and at home. But who get paid an absolute pittance. It is these guys who I feel for.

I agree, in the past, low public sector pay was compensated by the brilliant benefits of working in the PS - no core hours, flexitime, good annual leave entitlement etc. However, a lot of the private sector has now caught up with these benefits, and now actually give there staff even more benefits than PS workers. I look at what I get and then look at what a lot of my friends and family get. They get better pay, better leave and better benefits such as health care, child care, store discounts etc. Why am I there? See above my note of people's opinions of PS workers

Over the years, I've seen what nurses do. What the cleaners do. What the receptionists do. What most hospital staff do. If anyone deserves a MASSIVE pay rise, it's them.

Dr's? Yes. They do a good job. But I've heard some shocking stories of severe neglect and patient care from Dr's. One of my staff told me about a Dr who was on his phone throughout her consultation planning a 'lad's holiday'. He then went on to tell her that he is about to buy a home with the 'lads' and rent it out and only plans on staying in the job till he has a few homes and then he will quit the 'sh*t' job. Why is this? Over worked Dr's? Absolutely. But they swore an oath of care! Nurses are overworked, but I've never seen nor heard of that level of arrogance. Unfortunately, the Dr I mention above isn't the only one like this. There are many more from what I hear.

No matter how heartless or right wing one is, it would take one stone cold heart to say a pay increase is not needed. The government has the money. You only need to look at some of the contracts they've been scammed on by private sector IT, maintenance, supply firms etc. I know of some I.T. consultants who are paid £500  a day and for nothing as when they come in, the work that needed to be done by the top Civil Servants hasn't been done. So the consultants sit around getting paid to do nothing. Make of this what you may, but the money is there for public sector workers to get a fair pay rise.

Iain42

In 2009 Gordon Brown was Prime Minister of a Labour Government.

weaviemx5

Yes, 2009 was the last year that the annual rise was paid.  In 2010, Cameron/Osbourne introduced the austerity programme.

"Following the financial crisis of 2007–2008 a period of economic recession began in the UK. The first austerity measures were introduced in late 2008.[6] In 2009, the term age of austerity, which had previously been used to describe the years immediately following World War II,[7] was popularised by Conservative Party leader David Cameron. In his keynote speech to the Conservative Party forum in Cheltenham on 26 April 2009 he declared that "the age of irresponsibility is giving way to the age of austerity" and committed to end years of what he characterised as excessive government spending.[8][9][10] The austerity programme was initiated in 2010 by the Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition government"

United Kingdom government austerity programme - Wikipedia

What's more important, the year that austerity came in or the fact that austerity came in and the Civil Service/NHS was throttled?

Iain42

What's important when stating something as a fact, rather than an opinion, is that it is accurate.

In my opinion, if David Cameron's coalition government had actually introduced austerity, rather than "austerity light", we would be in a much stronger financial position today.

weaviemx5

So is it fact that the last annual rise was in 2009?  Apologies if my wording was misleading but the fact still remains that he Conservative Austerity measures introduced the freeze.

Iain42

I think other posters have already answered that.

It depends if you regard an increment as a rise or not.

weaviemx5

Ok, I think it's been done to death already with examples coming from both sides of the coin. Those that present the bands on paper and those that receive a payslip, so there's probably not much more to argue about.

Goooner

Am I missing something blindingly obvious, not having read through the whole thread, but in the private sector, I went about 5 years with no pay rise at all and in the last couple of years I’ve had a small increase each year. I’m sure if i bothered to work it out, this would also effectively be a pay cut, so what’s the difference?

rustybin

You're presumably able to move jobs to a different company into a higher paid role? The pay for that role being determined by capitalist market forces?

The trade off of not really being able to do this in many public sector jobs is that you get 2-3 year pay deals.

You simply can't compare roles like teachers and nurses to 'the private sector'. It doesn't make sense.