Public sector pay cap scrapped. Elections time?

dms

If everyone progresses to the next (presumably managerial/supervisory) level, who do they manage/supervise?

Rhetorical Question BTW

weaviemx5

But the "highest pay available for their job" is not some law of physics which can't be broken.  It has been set by some body, the Govt as far as I'm concerned.  So here it is the Govt's fault albeit the people in the situation have an option.

Whereas you're not wrong that the easiest way to improve salary (at least in the private is to job hop, and trade comfort in a role for a new salary (and a 2 year probation period where you can be kicked out for any reason or no reason, with discrimination laws still being applicable) that is a separate argument from whether or not there should be a ceiling on salary for a given role.

If £Xk was the right salary for that role in 2010 why is that the right salary in 2018 when inflation has gone up 15%.  It also means anyone entering the band/role for the first time in 2018 is much worse off compared to someone in that position in 2018.  Reasonable?

dms

As I say, I’ve said my piece and given the facts.  The RCN guidelines can say whatever they like but the real world payslip is what matters.  Everyone is different and makes different choices, I just feel that someone shouldn’t be penalised for doing the job they trained for and are very good at just because of a number on a piece of paper but let’s move on.

weaviemx5

They manage the next generation of nurses coming through the system. Plus those who choose not to pursue promotion for their own reasons.

dms

It is however understood up front and has been this way for many years. If people don't like this system, they knew the way it worked when they joined.

The Dude

That's a different argument to the salary being some insurmountable cap.

Whether people really understod it or not when they joined I think it quite debatable.  Pick and chose examples but mine are from people who choose nursing for wanting to help people.  They are also the sort of people who would not have sat down for any time to work out what they're career choice meant financially for the next 40 years.

Sure you can say anyone going into nursing, for example, is an adult who makes their own choices; but just like so many other things in life there is a limit to how far ahead people will check anything.  I know countless people who took their first job to get any old job and never considered what this would lead to, do you want to condemn the lot of them?

I think those people, not unreasonable, genuinely expect deep down that their salary would keep inline with inflation.  Also particularly when we're talking about what is frankly complex pay scales with a whole variety of factors / requirements which people would not understand when doing their initial training!

raduv1

I would also argue that they also signed up for regular annual rises in line with cost of living.

However, the issue of letting people ‘stagnate’  while they still actually perform a vital role is that it leads to people leaving the profession entirely which means the NHS rely more and more on expensive bank staff and immigration.

weaviemx5

It's a fair point that skimping on wages ends up driving up costs with bank staff and in teaching supply teachers.   So it's false economy in one sense to be skimping on wages to the point people are driven out.

The immigration argument normally ends up getting messy, but what not to forget about economic migrants (who are normally cheaper even if only as their training was abroad) is that they are easy come easy go... they have documents to travel and can go to various countries to do the same job.. many of them will speak multiple languages opening up even more opportunity.  So it is very easy to lose them from the UK employment market entirely.  Those are options home grown "captured" people don't have, and may well have even less of an option of soon.

dms

So it seems that we're now arguing that it's not just fruit pickers who's wages are driven down by the sticky-plaster of immigrant labour, who could have guessed?

Frostytouch

I am certainly to adverse to my taxes being raised to sustain it . Your suggestion being that wages should remain stagnant accross the board . That's gonna be good for zero
As again if the next generation coming through with wages stagnant does this in itself pose a problem on recutment from within the UK ,as such is this why the NHS has to rely so much on staffing from outside the EU ?

I'm not stating facts here BTW just asking the question.