Gay Marriage- Did Cameron think this through?

Bl4ckGryph0n

Sounds good

pragmatic

Sorry to take it off topic, but does anyone have a decent explanation of how Jesus the Son of God, also God Himself ... being killed by man somehow gets rid of all of man's sins?  Do not Kill and I am your one true God are the highest commandments, so apart from murder it seems man as committed the most heinous sin/crime possible.

I've heard the blood sacrifice argument before, but I don't think that ones stacks up too well, or is the explanation purely God is so much greater we can't understand him? (I'd be happy with a link, searched before but found nothing useful).

EarthRod

Maybe that requires a thread of it's own in the GC area.

I am sure the comments and discussion will be very active.

However, have you looked in the bible? That's where the story originates and unfolds.

karkus30

What's your level of interest: is it purely historical, passive, active or active without commitment ?   Everyone has a different approach. It doesn't matter what somebody tells you is the answer, it only matters what answer you find for yourself. There are many paths, many dead ends, many illusions and not a few moments of enlightenment. There is no fixed route because it very much depends what you think you are searching for and how actively you are searching. An active seeker has very strong Bhakti ( desire ) and nothing will stop them in their search, those with less Bhakti will find their search far more winsome and meandering. Some go almost straight from blindness to vision in a flash, others nibble like a bored fish for eons and have no strong motivation. Many others hit the shore of false knowledge where they lie beached for a long time believing they have reached some destination or goal that they have pre-arranged, others give up completely before they begin. Its all good

Cliff

In practise your religion is usually determined by where you were born, your parents religion, and how you were brought up.  e.g. I am culturally Christain-regardless of my own adherence.

It's only in the last 50 years it has been acceptable to say you are a non believer or atheist or what ever. In the Muslim culture it would certainly not be acceptable to make a statement like that. You might joke and say "I am not a good Muslim" but to say you do not believe in god might be inviting eternal damnation!

EarthRod

Beached with pre-arranged false knowledge.

You have a way with words.

karkus30

Hmmm, I didn't say it that way around though. I said a pre-arranged goal, some concept you believe is true. There is a big difference between believing something and knowing something. Knowledge cannot be found in any books and it cannot be passed on in any way. Many people create a goal because that has been the way from the dawn of man, see creature, kill creature, eat creature. Its a construct. Some say its a survival instinct, but if you look you will find no instinct except the material bodies cravings. Flesh is made of food, you can see this in the Bible and the ceremonious eating of the flesh of Christ.

So, this construct is not true knowledge. We can learn of to kill a creature, we can learn to track it, make a spear, calculate for distance, speed, windage. These are learned skills, they are not knowledge. Very few people know how to listen to the small, still voice within them because they are busy learning the skills. What happens is they try and hunt for God by applying these same skills, they read texts and books to obtain God hunting skills. Eventually they get tired trying to find this illusive a god creature, they have amassed a formidable amount of skills both mental and physical in the hunt for this conceptual creature they have created within their minds.

Those that have created the strongest illusion will have created a powerful image, they believe that the skillet they have developed and the concept they have of God are the same thing. Its like a substitution in calculus. Two false things, the conceptual goal and the learned mental and physical skills maroon them as far from a God as they could possibly be. They create the biggest illusion like the biggest and strongest wall, a fortress of belief. Essentially they have convinced themselves that they have found what they conceived and they are more deeply in illusion than the man who does not look for a God and does not believe in God.

Toko Black

Absolutely, but some people don't want to accept that cultural christians exist or that even if they do, they don't account for the 56% of people who ticked the 'christian' box on the census regardless of all the polls and research that indicates the contrary.

I was christend and therefore am counted as a memeber of the CofE in their records when they publish the data.
I went to sunday school and church parade in the cubs and scouts.

kav

As a story, it goes that in order to save mankind, God sent his only son to live amongst us to spread his message. The only way to save mankind was for God's son to make the ultimate sacrifice - in giving himself up for crucifixion Jesus was atoning for the sins of the entire human race, and allowing their salvation by God. Human and animal sacrifice in order to keep god happy is quite a popular theme in the bible, though I think the human sacrifices end with Jesus.

To confound matters, the story goes that this was preordained and both God and Jesus knew that it had to happen. In other words, the sinners who God claimed needed to be saved by having them murder his son had no choice in whether to commit the murder or not...a particularly repugnant paradox orchestrated either by a malicious, masochistic god, or an ignorant (by modern standards) people - I know which one my money is on. I've always felt sorry for poor old Judas, the biggest outcast in the Bible, who was simply playing a role that God imposed on him and had no choice in the matter, yet got all the blame for Jesus being given up to Pilate.

Of course it's a load of gibberish made up by men, with absolutely zero evidence for any of the supernatural aspects, but when it comes to religion even normally rational people are willing to suspend disbelief.

Pecker

Good points, but to be fair you've invoked a logical, self-fulfilling argument.

The supernatural is , by definition, that which is outside scientific understanding, and yet you criticise it for having no basis on scientific evidence.

It's s bit like saying Theo Walcott is a poor football player by invoking the lack of wickets he's taken in India this winter.

Steve W