HTC Vive Cosmos (2019)

huxley

Don't forget we have motion smoothing and ASW as well to help. Isnt PSVR 60fps with interlaced jiggery pokerery? Its very smooth.

aoaaron

Isn't it more hassle to have to plug them in to get charged over night over having to hardly ever have to replace the batteries and be able to just put them anywhere like with Oculus controllers? Oculus controller's charge are SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the Index's which surely is a winner there for convenience.

I'm sorry but your bias to dress up anything Valve related as a positive is sometimes borderline pathetic.

Next you're going to say that the £1000 price tag of the Index is actually a good thing because it gives you a higher desire to earn more money.

Or the grey-black levels of an Index is actually a positive compared to OLED because you see more shadow detail and you don't get too scared during horror games which will potentially save people from heart attacks

Or the lack if wireless on the Index despite the price is actually a good thing because the wire feels really comfortable and keeps you aware of your surroundings.

Or the clicky option of the Index controllers on the initial batch was actually really nice touch of Valve to give early adopters a special edition controller which they can sell on in years to come.

Or the fact Valve not releasing any first party game with the Index is actually a good thing because its nice to get to know the hardware for months on end with no native content before playing games designed for them.

Or having external sensors darted around your living room with wires dangling is actually cool because it gives your room  a technological wirey but cool look.

Haahahahaha.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Index and its superior to every other headset out there except IMO a wireless Vive Pro (because I like wireless and I like black levels). But come on man! Can't you even pretend to give a half fair assessment of hardware without a huge bias?

Atmos

@aoaaron I really don’t care. You went full fanboy with that rant. Lol

Don’t get so defensive.

I’m sure a wireless solution will come to Index either from TPcast or Intel.

I hope in 12 months Valve release an Index  with higher res screens and wider FOV. It will be a lot cheaper upgrade without the need to buy base stations and Knuckles all over again.

I don’t mind waiting for Valves game as Steam has a great collection of games now beyond anything on the Ocukys Store. I’ve spend over 140 hours in NMS and it’s s game that keeps on giving. Tonight I just got a S class Exotic. Real nice.

I can only hear bitterness in your posts now. Going with Steam and Valve really payed off. I get to play the best HMD with the best controllers and the best games.

OC6 was a massive disappointment. The promise of Halfdome years away, Vader Immortal so shirt you can finish it in 15 minutes. Only Stormland looking decent but no better than NMS.

I’ve always like the look of Quest though ever since Oculus announced Santa Cruz and I could well buy the kids one for Christmas.

I just find it funny how some vent their frustration with Oculus at me as though I told FB to turn to turn their back on high end PCVR.

At least one of us is happy.

aoaaron

Not at all. I'm not a fanboy of either headset. You have sadly assumed I'm an Oculus fanboy, because you're an immature Valve fanboy and think everyone has a side.. but I don't have a side.

I love the Index's whole point of actually being an inclusive headset. It has actual built in sound, excellent ergonomics and the little touch like the magnetic faceplaces just illustrate someone that aims to use the headset everyday has had a clear though process. The controllers, although grossly overpriced, are an excellent step in the right direction too and a clear evolution over the Touch controllers. The refresh rate is a very nice idea but I think its a generation too soon when we really need extra FOV, extra resolution and possibly better colour reproduction before we think about higher refresh rate screens.. but meh.. not the worst decision in the world when you consider Oculus last generation tried to write off Room scale and used an Xbox controller at launch lmao.

Oculus shot themselves in the foot when they didn't include an acceptable audio solution. I lost a lot of respect for them from that perspective.

Theres literally no bitterness. I'm really neutral when it comes to VR.  I just don't get why your posts are so god damn fanboyish and skewed to one side over the other. Its pathetic.

Even now, you've literally tried to make this an Oculus versus Valve debate, when its just not from my perspective.

My point is specifically about the pathetic twisting and manipulating of situations you did in regards to the Valve controller's being rechargable and having a semi-pathetic battery life compared to the Touch ones with normal batteries. You lack the ability to assess anything neutrally, you literally come across as a little kid trying to pick sides. Its childish and boring.

So yeah. I bashed Oculus and Valve in this post, so clearly I'm not a fanboy.

aoaaron

Oh and I totally agree on Vader Immortal. I really don't see how devoting resources to 15-45 minute experiences is clever or smart.

They have the Star Wars IP and rather than making an awesome Star Wars game, Oculus have once again shown they'd rather showboat and tack on some arcadey crap than create a proper game.

I had the same frustration with the Marvel Super Heroes games. The BEST and most FAMOUS superheroes and they managed to make the game so freaking bland after the first 10 minutes. Just absolutley dissapointing.

That actually leads (off topic sorry) to my other beef with Oculus which I hope they slowly learn from. They just do not have the expertise in game development which Sony or Valve have. Boot up Portal 2 or The Last of Us or Uncharted or Half Life 2... The gulf in class is ridiculous. Compared TF2 to Dead and Buried...

Despite Oculus's best efforts, one of the barriers to VR expansion is sadly the fact that the developer who is prepared to devote the most money and resources to game development by buying IPs is also one of the least experienced.

If Valve had released as many exclusive titles as Oculsus has, and devoted that much resources to them, I have NO DOUBT we would have many many smash hits which rival AAA games like Portal 2 and Half Life (this is assuming Valve still have the talent to make games given its been so long that they've had to try).  I get why Sony haven't done it (they print money with the PS4 this gen).

Atmos

@aoaaron its you showing the immaturity attacking a complete stranger on the Internet over his choice of VR headset lol. You represent everything that’s wrong with the Oculus Forums.

But you see what you want to see. Just because I had foresight 3 years ago to pick the best team to deliver VR long term doesn’t make me a bad person lol even if you want to see it that way.

Steam always had an established store with long term partners which I predicted would port their games to VR. Oculus on the other hand had nothing to Port and the VR market was too small for big AAA Devs to produce full dedicated games for.

When I chose Valve I chose them not for what they would deliver at launch, I chose them for what they would deliver long term. We are now seeing that coming to fruition.

I realised early on that Oculus needed to invest heavily to get an established store before AAA games started to appear on Steam. I argued  ports were the future of VR v Oculuses reliance on new dedicated VR games. Yes dedicated games built from the ground up for VR are better but ports are cheaper and games like Skyrim and NMS have proved a massive success for VR.

I predicted Oculus would fail when it came to PCVR and while Rift has a  big chunk of the VR market they’ve done this off the back of an aggressive price structure undercutting the competition. Even so they have a slim lead after 3 years of multi billion investments when you add Oculus and all those exclusive deals together.

Oculus will be there as long as the FB cash keeps flowing. Cut that funding and Oculus would disappear because they even admit they need 10 million users on each platform to keep it alive. Steam on the other hand already has a loyal following and all Valve has to do is drop the price of the Index which they will and nullify any price advantage Lenovo has with RiftS. HTC couldn’t do that, Valve can and it’s one of the reasons they got in on the hardware scene. Now they can take control of the whole PCVR platform as and when it suits. Right now demand for Index is high so prices will remain high but once suppy outstrip demand prices will tumble.

What you call fanboyism I call business sense and its funny reading how proud some people when it comes to Rift and RiftS market share on Steam. This is Oculuses biggest failure - stopping their headsets being used on rival stores. GabeN doesn’t care what hardware manufacture comes to Steam the more the merrier. If Oculus drop their hardware prices to boost Oculus Store traffic then its an equal win for the Steam Store too. There’s more money to be made in software than hardware. And Steam is still making 99.5% more profit on 2D games than Oculus Store. Heck VR isn’t even out of first gear after 3 years so what motivation does Valve have to accelerate the transition to VR? Absolutely non.

aoaaron

You're twisting words. I've never attacked you based on your VR headset choice. I've spoken up about the fact you hold a ridiculous bias towards the Index which is annoying, to the extent you paint some of its flaws as positives.

Once again, I reiterate that I am a fan of the Index.

Dude, once again I struggle to understand what point you're trying to make? I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself but I'm not exactly on team Oculus. I openly critiscise them ALL the time and I did so in my previous post to you.

I've never said you are a bad person for your headset choice. I think you're an annoying person for your blatant fanboyism and skewed biased takes on VR, not for the headset you chose. If you had a Rift S and a Quest and posted about them like you post the Index, I would still have the same issue. You lack any neutrality to the argument whatsoever.

You literally remind me of a child I met in school who was a PS3/Sony fanboy. It was irritating.

Your remark in regards to the batteries was pathetic. It was clutching at straws. Rather than just conceding that Oculus do have a longer lasting more convienant battery, you tried to make out that its a good thing to have to charge your controller everyday rather than slip off a battery cover every couple of months?

Once again, you're trying to degrade this conversation into an Oculus versus Valve debate.

My issue is NOT with valve. Its NOT with the index. Its NOT with oculus. Its with the way you post like a rabbid fanboy and lack any neutrality and intelligence in your posts. Instead you just keep going on like a little 10 year old fanboy (please forgive me if you are still in primary or secondary school).

Please can your next post not be another Oculus versus Valve retort. Its so boring.

aoaaron

Also FYI, the value you talk about in the Valve eco system doesn't exist.

Anyone who's in the valve ecosystem has had to buy:
1. Vive
2. Wands
3. Base Stations
4. Deluxe Audio strap
5. Optional wireless adapator
6. Replace headset with an Index
7. Replace wands with Index controllers

That ammounts to approximately £1700 (I'm being conservative, its more money). This excludes selling the Headset and wands (which have crap resale value alone).

Someone on the Oculus model has:
1. CV1
2. Optional sensor   cabling/usb extension cables
3. Rift S

Thats clearly under £900. This exlcudes selling the CV1 which has semi-decent resale value because its a complete system.

Also PLEASE don't make this an Index vs Rift S debate. This is PURELY based on monetary investment. Value is pretty subjective and I'd tend to agree that the pinpoint tracking of the vive ecosystem is worth investing in.

My investment for the Rift line of products has been exactly £399. I bought my CV1, played with it for a year, then returned it due to a generous return policy and bought a Rift S. Without the return policy, I could have shifted it second hand for £275-300 with the sensor which would have been a £500 investment.

I was going to buy an Index instead but I have a very nice home theatre room which is decorated beautifully and I HATE wires. I also have a gaming PC upstairs and downstairs, so the inside out is a bit convienant (but tbh, I hate the Rift S due to his lack of audio as I'm an audiophile).

Software wise,  I understand why Oculus have locked their store but I also don't like it (for my own convienance sake).



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Your last point is the reason I don't like Valve much these days. I was a big valve fan but they've really turned their backs on the gaming community in the past few years in terms of contributing to the software side of things. The fact fans still talk about half life 3 has turned from a meme into a downright insult to the fans of the series. Their committment to producing huge ammounts of VR titles should be to the consumers who've bought their hardware.

Valve did this before with their silly Steam Machines, Steam link boxes and Steam controllers. They release hardware and they don't support them properly. I really hope they don't do that with the Index.

They're a company that have deemed it fine to just live off of software sale commission. I hope they're not going to do the same with the Index and just live off the hardware profits.

Nivek TT

I've completely lost the narrative of this thread. Loads of points and dunno whether I agree with any of them. Except for this comment aimed at @MikeKay1976 ...

I completely disagree... You're not sorry at all

MikeKay1976

eh??? why are you dragging me into this? The quote you attributed to me was not mine and when it comes to fanboys... I am a VR fanboy and hold no allegiance to any headset.

I bought a DK2 because it was the only VR headset in town.
I bought a CV1, partly because i liked what oculus had done previously and I was conifident that the CV1 would be the best gen 1 consumer VR HMD.  For me this was the case - I respect others feel different, it wasnt a slam dunk in any way, CV1 was better in some areas, weaker in others than the vive, and there were bumps along the way WRT tracking and having to wait 6 months for oculus touch to come out....  consumer choice is great the VIVE is a good HMD as well.

right now there is only 1 HMD that interests me if I was buying new, the Index, all of the others have significant design issues which put me off, however so long as my CV1 keeps working I hope to skip this batch entirely and see what comes next.... For me given the price the improvements the index offer are not enough when I have a functioning CV1.... (My gpu logic is I usually upgrade when I get (close to) a 100% increase in performance..... I am not looking for that big a jump for my next VR device but definitely bigger than what the index is offering right now - unless my hand if forced)

Whilst there are points in the oculus corner from me in terms of the oculus drivers and the features the HMD supports, plus the fact that Oculus are significantly investing in VR games, I have concerns that oculus are not looking to cater to the high end PC owner.......... so all options will be on the table when the time comes.

I am angry at Valve for not releasing any software of note for donkeys years and just happily raking money off other peoples work as well as taking a chunk on card trades etc... imo some of that cash should have been used to develop their own IP, but other than that I hold no candle for any of the big hitters.

They are all billion $ companies trying to take our cash.  I am loyal to none of em.  Epic Store, love it or hate it will hopefully force Valves hand and make them actually make some software again.

Back on point.
The Cosmos I was sort of interested in.  For the right headset the price is ok for me however it seems there are significant issues with it..... hopefully the tracking can be sorted with software but i would definitely take a wait and see approach.