The State knows what's best for your children?

Cliff

No I am not doing a Karkus and making out the state is bad in all cases.
But it needs to be monitored very closely, as there are clearly abuses of power which can get totally out of hand. One family, thankfully, have brought this to our attention.

EarthRod

I've already covered this point many posts ago and IG has covered it again.

The child is signed in to a hospital and from then on the child is the hospital's responsibility, both physically and legally. The parents are no longer legally responsible for the child - the hospital is. The child's welfare is in the hospital's hands.

If the parents or anyone else quietly and quickly removes the child from the hospital without the doctors signing the child out or agreeing to the removal, the hospital is still legally responsible for the child and a kidnap has taken place. If the child is in a critical medical condition and a kidnap has occurred it is the hospital's responsibility to alert the authorities and quickly. The police are involved. It would be totally and criminally wrong if the hospital has not alerted the authorities.

Whether the child was in a NHS or a private hospital or any overseas hospital makes no odds - the hospital is responsible for the well-being of the child.

This is the third time this aspect has been covered.

pragmatic

Well no as we wouldn't have had to go around and around, it is a lot clearer now.

Toko Black

The state knows best if and only if those decisions are lead by experts in situations requiring expert knowledge.

I think for many of us, it is not the 'state knows best', it is experts know best and in many cases that is what the state is or should be following.
There are of course political situations and cases where the state doesn't rely on experts where we would equally disagree with the statement that the state knows best.

In this case - it's doctors know best when contrasted with your average parent or citizen.
Again this isn't an idea that doctors are infallible and all knowing, just that as a matter of odds, they will know more and be better informed to make the most appropriate decision far more often than someone who isn't qualified.

pragmatic

Just hope you don't get a corrupt, lazy or vindictive one.

Toko Black

Which could equally be applied to parents or any member of the public. Add to that the fact that parents/members of the public are susceptible to additional fallibilities such as over confidence in their own understanding or abilities, too heavily emotionally invested to make rational choices and/or desperate.

Your position seems to paint everyone into a 'don't trust anyone','it's us against the world'.
Not particularly healthy or helpful for society or the individuals.

EarthRod

This whole situation has highlighted how open and democratic hospitals are at present.

The NHS hospital administration will possibly close this particular loophole so it never happens again. In other words all sorts of penalty clauses might be added to the signing in and signing out procedures - which of course will make things harder for the ordinary public.

Hospitals might also introduce further and more stringent security procedures on hospital entry and exit points - which of course will make things harder for the ordinary public.

Hopefully this was a one-off occurrence and will not happen again. If it does hospitals could end up with similar security procedures as airports - which of course will make things harder for the ordinary public.

pragmatic

A kidnap has taken place?

Please point to the statute in criminal law which says that removing your own child from a hospital without signing a form is a criminal offence, let alone an actual kidnap.

I agree the hospital has an obligation to report the matter and ensure that no actual crime has taken place (e.g. child removed by a stranger without parental authority) but I cannot agree a parent doing so amounts to an actual kidnap.

pragmatic

Have you met many Doctors?  They are particularly susceptible to these failings too ...
While their advice is far greater quality than the average person they aren't beyond needing to be called into question at times.  E.g., when they keep telling you there is nothing wrong with you but you have cancer and then die from an entirely curable form of it, which a surprising high number of people have anecdotes of, never mind the big stories we see in the media.

Ruperts slippers

Eh?