Are the filthy rich for no deal?

Coulson

What's to stop them? Court of human rights? Nope, not anymore. Now I'm not saying that it's not flawed because it is. But that's like saying we shouldn't have courts at all because they have been shown to be biased against certain communities. Yes they have been, but you still need courts.

Coulson

Yes and you make some great points (I did say there are good arguments of both sides), but I still ask the same question, what is to stop these rights from being eroded? Can't you see the gradual centralisation of power that is occurring around the world. The only difference here is that the lords and ladies of this land don't want to share.

If for example the Europeans do leave, who does that leave to do the work the English don't want to do?  In the past it was the West Indians, who will it be now?

If and when Brexit happens there will be one common refrain. Let's make Britain great again! Let's get Britain working again! Both are the same thing meant to engender a sense of pride in the country ,which is good, but my "guess" is that is will enable the exploiting that sentiment and exploiting of the workforce. By the way, I'm not a union person (most have been rendered toothless) and I'm not a lefty. It just seems obvious to me that the very people pushing for Brexit are not the kind of people who are would do something to harm themselves.

Goooner

Yes, the gradual centralisation if power going to the EU.

Sonic67

See edited post. We got the rights we have without the EU.

You are also missing the obvious with your project fear. The electorate. Would you vote to see less rights for yourself? Why would anyone else? How is it a vote winner?

Coulson

Read my full (edited) post. I don't believe in Project Fear because I know that it's just another slogan (just like 350 million for the NHS). As for your question? Simples. The regions that mostly voted for Brexit are the same regions that mostly benefited from EU subsidies. How is that a vote winner?

I can see the problems with the EU, we all can, but I'm just not sure this is the answer.

Goooner

What is the answer then? Reforming from within is clearly a non starter. Cameron went cap in hand begging for any scraps that he could spin to say “see, they will listen” and they sent him back with nothing.

Coulson

Exactly!
The following article is from the Guardian (*not always my favourite source*) but it does link on one of the original articles from the Times (unfortunately behind the paywall) and quotes extensively from Bloomberg. Nigel Farage denies shorting value of sterling on night of Brexit vote
What it essential says is that both the Times and Bloomberg suspect the Farage was "deliberately" playing up the potential win of Remain in order to drive the value of the pound up and that he had knowledge of a final exit poll which predicted that the Leave campaign would likely be the winner.

SimonB91

A prominent MP who has been on both sides, said during a meeting I was involved in before the vote that he envisaged the EU becoming the United States of Europe in the very near future with France/Germany at its helm.  With the ‘new boys’ pushed out/part of a separate wider EU group.

To this day, when you ask him about that he still agrees and I have to say I do too.  On that basis, I don’t think it’s necessarily just the ‘filthy’ rich who are pro-Brexit or who will benefit.  They are just making the most of the situation, wouldn’t we all given the opportunity?

As someone else said, things will sort themselves in the end regardless but I think if we leave with no deal, a deal will soon be done once both sides have stopped being so proud/stubborn.

Coulson

One can hope but I just can't see Boris doing this. If the leaks for his current plans are anywhere near true then the Irish are already saying it's a non starter and the rumour is that the EU are saying that it doesn't give the same guarantees as the backstop.

I suppose I should just get the popcorn out

Coulson

Agreed, but with at least a veneer of higher goals. Here it looks like just a straight grab for power.