Canon mirrorless

snerkler

Lol, so it wasn't

wysinawyg

The only way you can do no blackout is with an electronic shutter (as per the A9). The fact that he was in mechanical shutter and not seeing a blackout meant it was showing him a slideshow of pics he’d taken.

Physics says you can’t use a mechanical shutter and also see what’s in the other side of the shutter blades live.

doug56hl

Not even shooting at 1/8000th of a second...
Can the human eye refresh fast enough to notice that?
And isn't the refresh rate of the Oled either 60 or 120Hz (don't know the figure for the R).

snerkler

Well that would have been my initial thought too, but who knows what voodoo magic they can do Maybe they leave this display showing for that split second the shutter closed so that it looks seemless?

snerkler

Well being as I can see a blackout shooting with my DSLR at fast shutter speeds (although haven’t shot at 1/8000 yet ) I’d say the human eye should be able to detect blackout caused by the shutter.

wysinawyg

Actually it isn’t just the exposure time is it?

If you don’t have EFCS on then a mirrorless camera has to close the shutter, wipe the pixels, open the shutter for the exposure time, close the shutter, read the sensor then open the shutter again.  Even with EFCS you just skip the first shutter movement.

And the 5D IV has a fairly slow (relatively) sensor read time which the EOS R has probably inherited given what I’ve seen on the rolling shutter and the absence of any change in video specs. Assuming it isn’t because of the mode and is a general choice - it will be interesting to see whether it is helpful or jarring when shooting action if they’re freezing the last image rather than showing a blackout like everyone else.

snerkler

No you’re right, I don’t know what the overall time is but with the faster shutter times it’s a strip between the two curtains so whilst each part of the sensor is only exposed by 1/4000 or 1/8000 the total time for the shutter to move across the entire frame is longer. Looking at how fast the fastest frame rates are for a mechanical shutter you’re looking at 1/15s  to complete the whole process for the OMD EM1 Mark II, that’s with AEL/AFL. I would guess we’re reaching the laws of physics as far as how fast a shutter can closepen:close, which is why manufacturers are pushing electronic shutters.

The A9 shoots at 20fps but I’d have thought that the human eye could detect 1/20 so maybe Sony is applying some kind of tech that I suggested above for why Jared couldn’t see any blackout, ie they fill in the gaps by leaving the display/last frame on for that split second that the shutter is closed?

wysinawyg

I think the A9 is proper hardware sorcery - with separate pipes for the EVF feed and the photo capture so it’s effectively doing both at once. There definitely isn’t a visible change in the EVF display when shooting, to the extent I’ll often miss the silly light grey box and end up having run off a bunch of shots without intending to or noticing (it also has an over sensitive shutter button that doesn’t really have much physical feedback either).

Part of the reason for doubting it on the EOS R is that nobody else has mentioned it, and I would have thought Canon would be shouting from the rooftops about it if they had a real tech breakthrough.

I think Caleb Pike likes the EOS R though:

Johnmcl7

Nokia didn't fail to predict the changing landscape at all, they actually predicted the future better than others in seeing smartphones as portable computers rather than phones - their Maemo powered smartphones years ago still handled aspects like multitasking better than current smartphones.  The Nokia 808 Pureview as in an entirely different league of camera quality to anything else and the fact they could not only produce such a sensor but make it so workable.  While I didn't agree with their change to Microsoft some of their Lumia models were very impressive particularly the likes of the 925 which was one of the earliest phones to have OIS (on top of a great sensor) and their polycarbonate construction felt good in the hand and was tough unlike the current fragile phones.

What killed Nokia and Microsoft's mobile OS was brand image, they just weren't cool any more so no matter how good the hardware and software was they got nowhere.  Even as the only company producing decent budget handsets (a market Apple don't compete in and at the time the Android handsets were awful) they still couldn't manage more than a negligible market share.  Apple of course have an immensely strong brand name and have enjoyed consistently strong sales despite often lagging years behind their rivals.  In particular in key technology areas like data speeds and camera quality, it took years before they were able to match Nokia's much older phones.

Canon on the other hand have one of the strongest brand names in photography if not the strongest, for the last few years they've been criticised for lagging in sensor technology and the mirrorless market yet their sales have still been consistently very strong.  

Sony on the other have a much weaker brand name for photography and still in discussion about the Nikon, Sony and Canon FF mirrorless cameras there are frequent references to Sony not really being a proper camera company whereas Canon and Nikon are.  An example that stuck with me was a commenter on an article expressing surprise anyone would choose a Sony camera over a Canon/Nikon claiming that's like choosing a Kia over a Ferrari/Porsche.  To be clear I don't in any way agree with this as much of it doesn't make any sense but that's the way the market is at the moment.

Canon very much know this when they produced the EOS R hence they will likely see strong sales from the EOS R despite some of its issues and deliberate limitations.

Jules

I have to come clean.  Despite slating Canon earlier, I have ordered an EOS R and sold my 5D Mark IV to pay for it.
I have a fairly unique set of circumstances though, so I'm going to explain my reasons for doing it.... but its something I don't think most people should do.

I 100% maintain that the EOS R is crippled to hell and poses a very poor value proposition when compared to the better performing and cheaper Sony A7iii.
I'm a little irritated by the 4K crop, lack of IBIS, and lack of 120fps at 1080p.

But I own a Canon C200 and I always used my 5D Mark IV as a B camera when shooting interviews to maintain a similar 'look'.  The face detect autofocus was a dream but the 5D IV lacked C-Log, the 4K files were too large, and I couldn't attach my 10-18 EFS lens to make up for the 1.7x crop in 4K.
Also, even though the 5D IV has dual card slots, it only used one of them when recording video.

The EOS R accepts EF-S lenses via the adapter, and has C-LOG.
Plus, I started a VLOG last week, and there was no way I was going to carry my C200 about on a cycle ride.  Screwing ND filters to the front of my 5D proved to be a massive pain, so I will appreciate the ND filter adapter and flippy screen on the EOS R.

I calculated the cost of changing all my lenses to Sony, and at this moment in time it would've been impossible for me to switch.  
So...the 2 major feature that would make my life easier are on the EOS R... i.e. the flippy screen and the ability to drop in a variable ND filter adapter behind your existing EF glass.

Taking everything into account, and considering I was able to sell my 5D Mark IV for almost the price of the EOS-R, I decided it was worth a reluctant punt.

It seams to me that Canon have played this one extremely cleverly.
They've created a camera that rightly should be slated, but which still has one or two unique characteristics that make owning one somewhat justifiable.
And there are rumours suggesting Canon has a patent preventing other manufacturers from putting a flippy screen on their full frame cameras.
If that's true then its terrible news for the consumer, but might explain why even Panasonic have been unable to include a flippy screen on their upcoming full frame camera.

Anyway... there you have it.  I've done the dirty deed.
But I would recommend anyone who doesn't need to quickly match footage with another Canon camera get the A7iii at this price point instead.

Clever but cruel Canon.