The HiFi Myth and Professional System Design

durk

Yes room acoustics do affect sound quality theres no doubt, but this

                                                                                                                                               

Will always sound better than this! regardless of room acoustics

                                                                                                                                               

And anyhow music should be about enjoyment and if it sounds good to you it is good, regardless of of a peak of 10db @ 65 hz   enjoy

PS im not saying what the op says isnt true...just that in most cases a good Hi Fi with carefully placed speakers can sound pretty dam fine to my ears

CJROSS

Sorry I disagree, the level of "problem" Rob is suggesting is directly proportional to the equipment lines he sells (expertise & experience), thus any newbie coming on here is hardly getting any impartial opinion. I agree with Karkus, it is very easy to spot the long term posters (and 1 long term moderator) here interested in hifi/stereo equipment that have kept this hifi sub forum of AVF ticking over the years, to see posts like the first one here will dissuade me from posting and leaves a bitter taste, it is simply wrong as the advice/opinion is not impartial by any stretch of the imagination.

I have seen many forums fall by the wayside due to dealers marketing and their fanboys pimping their wares, always ends in acrimony, users forums are just that, forums where users can discuss kit or give opinion, some people have joined forums and pretended to be users plugging gear, but once you dilute the poster with nothing to gain from user forums, they lose the factor that makes them special in the first place. I hope AVF keeps an eye on why it is so big, the users not the industry have made it so.

Yours in concern.

ryart

I respect your opinion even if I don't entirely share it. Some of the most useful posts on this forum to me have been posted by traders who deal in Video processors. Their extensive expertise was very useful to me in building up the knowledge about processors before making a decision as to what to buy at the time. It was probably more reliable than the posters with limited experience of the equipment but extensive views to proffer, interesting and useful as some of those views were.

As long as we can see if people are traders and what lines they sell we can make up our own minds as to how reliable their contributions are. Like it or not the most extensive knowledge about hifi comes from those in the industry who have the opportunity to hear rather more systems then someone like myself who has only used seven different pairs of speakers at home in the past ten years and only in three different rooms (along with similar number of different amps and CD players etc ).

I think it is a shame if we can't read the views of traders with experiences to relate. We must of course be aware if they have a vested interest. My own limited experience with room correction confirms that he makes some worthwhile points. Perhaps it would be better if he had joined in on a thread about room correction rather than starting it. Assuming he had voiced the same views would that have been different?

I appreciate and respect your concerns although I am just as concerned that we are discussing this rather than the subject of room correction.

With best regards

BlueWizard

Well, we certainly all agree that room acoustic DO make a difference, but I wonder how long it took each of us to come to that conclusion, and I wonder if the average consumer even gives it a thought, even though is is certainly messing up his sound quality.

To most of the people who are building a dedicated media room or who are dedicating a room to that purpose, come here and want to talk about amps and speakers. Yet, we invariably tell them the first thing they need to do is consider the room and not the equipment. Absorbers on the back and side walls, to the extent possible bass traps, acoustical ceiling tile, or an irregular ceiling to disperse the reflected sound.

Aborption and dispersion are the key to a good sounding room.

When Rob says good and better and better sounding equipment will not necessarily sound better, I don't think he is saying better equipment will sound worse in the same room. I think he is saying that better and better equipment will not necessarily meet our preconceived expectation.

But that is nothing special or new. Frequently people come to this forum and say I bought these great expensive speaker and am completely disappointed with how they sound. My response is to point out that it is not the speaker at fault but their preconceived expectation. Most expect to hear MORE from a better speaker, and when they don't hear MORE, they are disappointed. But I suspect the more they were used to hearing was more distortion, a more irregular response, more exaggerated bass, etc....

When they break away from the more is better equipment and mindset, they are disappointed that they hear less, or at least the perceive that they hear less until they become used to it.

So, Rob is raising some valid points for discussion. And yes, he does not hide the fact that he is an Assured Advertiser and that audio and video, as well as room acoustics are his business. But that doesn't discredit what he is saying.

I do think he perhaps underestimated us, and his comments were a bit shallow, but for beginner or people being introduced to quality sound, it was probably right on.

Now, if he could expand at some depth about what is necessary to make or improve room acoustics, the information would be valuable to all.

We have had other discussion about room acoustics and what you need to do to improve a room, and we've had these discussion at all levels, for both DIY and hire it out types. But it is still information that bear repeating.

It is the one thing that most people can control, and it is the one thing that they least often consider.

In some cases, something as simple as hanging a tapestry on the back wall might be enough to settle a room down. In other cases, a carpet on the floor. There are a full range of options and costs, and levels of Do-It-Yourself available hear.

For average consumers who can't afford to spend £20,000 on a dedicated 'perfect' room, there are still things you can do. Many of those thing requiring little more that forethought, common sense, and a little research.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

Paul D

Rob, i see where you are coming from as i've been saying the same for a while now.

See my post here  click link

However, i see your post as nothing more than an advert.
Other assured advertisers build up a reputation before "advising" what is good and bad.
That way people trust what they are being told, and hopefully those guys get some sales from it.
I think you would be better hanging around for a while and joining in other discussions, then "hinting" about other improvements that can be made...

phil t

Hifi, like food, comes down to your own preference.  Just because some one has tasted lots of different styles of food, doesn’t mean they know what food you like?

If some one said that levels of spice in a curry could be adjusted to suit an individual’s pallet and for a fee they could provide that service, wouldn’t you be a bit wary?

CJROSS

This is where we strongly differ then Ryart it should be discussed not nicely ignored to suit an advertiser here, I don't want to see posts like this in this forum due to the commercial bias they carry (I am no alone). In fact the posters moaning about this type of insinuating advertising are the chaps who put the leg work and have kept the forum running all these years (and I even disagree with some of the stuff they say normally!!). Where does it all end? We will next end up with slanging matches and viral marketing/shilling from dealers against lines of kit they don’t stock (and I have seen this on every hifi forum I have been a member of).

It is the absolutism in the first post as “it’s my way or you’re wasting your time” Then the “What’s for sale” comment that makes the OP unsavoury to me.

FWIW I also know how important getting your room sorted and kit located in an optimum position to perform, but I’d rather spend my budget on various bits of kit that can change performance (source/amp/speakers) and rely on using my ears than some expensive parametric EQ system – which while performing a task, is no superior to me than relying on my ears to get the options performance to my preference. IMHO & YMMV.

Rob Sinden

I'm new to the Forums but I have been told that members have a very diverse levels of skills and expertise.
I'm sure there are many people on the Forums with degrees in audio for example that will know far more about acoustics and sound than I do, but what I'm also certain of is that the majority of people with a passing interest in music or home cinema have no idea just how profound an affect the room has on the sound of the equipment they buy.
Selling audio equipment is my business however it is also something I'm very passionate about and currently I think that many customers are being ripped off being sold very expensive audio equipment that will never give good results in their room due to the acoustics of the space or where the speakers have to be placed. I'm happy to defend this point to anyone out there.
I have tried to point out the fact that simply buying good audio equipment will not give good sound as this is a fact that I think consumers should be aware of. I am absolutely 100% convinced that the right type of room correction system will improve any stereo or home cinema system - usually dramatically and in a way that no other tweaks or upgrades make possible.
The concept of calibrating video systems is now common practice amongst videophiles - what then is the argument for not measuring and correcting audio systems?
Of course the proof of the pudding is in the listening which is why I'm doing all I can to get people in front of systems using all the benefits that I suggest.
Given the nature of the Forums I'm sure if the results aren't absolutely convincing the results will quickly very quickly be exposed and I'll be denounced for the dirty salesman I am!
Why not come and have a listen and then let Forum memebers know what a sham my methods are?

AngelEyes

Personally I like retailers contributing to threads their input is welcome and most seem to find a good balance.

What makes me really uncomfortable is the posting of multiple threads in different forums which is so obviously a marketing promotion.

What if all the assured advertisers decided to do this?

Adam

Rob Sinden

I think it would depend on what other retailers and manufaturers had to say. Mostly it would be buy this, it's much better than last years model.

Like it or not I think you have to concede that what I'm saying is a bit more evolved that that. It's very challenging and I think it will be exposed as nonsense or valid, very quickly when people listen to our systems and make up their own minds and post their findings..