Iran's Nuclear Ambitions

weaviemx5

Again, I didn’t defend the actions of those Palestinians taking children along (I imagine the women can probably make their own decisions).

As I’ve previously stated, I’m no expert but in any conflict there are at least two sides.  Nobody is wholly innocent but the facts still suggest that Israel’s response is highly disproportionate and potentially contravening human rights (stated by the UN and Britain, not me).  Whilst the conflict is two-sided, from a military might point of view, Israel are anything but the poor relation being bullied.

weaponx031277

So when we had riots in London a few years back did we have troops on the street shooting people when they were throwing stones and petrol bombs?

Also the other week the IDF shoot and killed a Palestinian Reporter despite him being clearly identified.  

Im pretty sure most people on here would be out protesting if someone came and stole your country from under you and then made you live worse than a second class citizen.

rustybin

Unfortunately not.

weaviemx5

Because that model works really well for the moral IDF.

Bl4ckGryph0n

Nobody is saying you did, the reality is that some idiots think that is a good idea. Well though titty it really isn't a good idea.

Totally agreed that there are always to sides to a story, and also agreed that Israel is a much bigger military might. I can't agree though that they aren't constantly being bullied by the masters of playing 'poor me' aka the Palestinians.

Unfortunately not, that would have stopped it quickly. Or at the very least deploy some water cannons on the streets. I remember those from mainland Europe. That would knock down (literally) unarmed but violent protestors.

As @weaviemx5 highlighted above, there are always two sides to a story. Just become someone identifies as a reporter that doesn't mean they don't have be compliant and not pose a thread.

It wasn't Israel doing that though, that was 70 years ago decided by the world. Have an argument with the world but behave in the meantime please. And what is a second class citizen? Nice emotive word but what is it?

Toko Black

No, the world did not agree and still doesn't.
Jerusalem is supposed to be an open city that was UN officiated according to the 1947 Partition plan.

Jerusalem was the capital of Palestine under the British under the British Mandate.
The British Mandate was due to expire and the 1947 Partition Plan agreed to replace it.
When the British started to pull out however, the 1948 Israeli - Arab war broke out.
Israel took control of West Jerusalem and also large amounts of land designated for the Palestinians under the 1947 Partition plan.
Jordan took control of East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

Then in 1967 the 6 day War broke out and Israel took East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights as well as the Sinai Peninsula.
Israel pulled out of the Sinai in 1982 after the 1978 peace deal with Egypt.
Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip in 2005.

At no point has the UN recognised Jerusalem as part of Israel.
The US did in part with the 1995 with the Jerusalem Embassy act which has finally been inacted by Trump 23 yrs after every previous President, Democrat or Republican has passed a waiver on.

So in summary:
Officially according to the UN and International Law, Jerusalem is not in Israel and not it's capital.
The UN has as a vast majority always held this position and only constant veto's by the US have stopped action being taken.

weaviemx5

Thanks for this.  As someone who is an outsider to this conflict that’s a useful summary.

What’s laughable (if it wasn’t so frightening) is that the only reason Trump is moving the US embassy and supporting Israel vocally is so that he can appease his ultra Christian base who are one of his few remaining supporters in the US yet people believe he’s actually doing it out of some moral ‘right’.  

The saddest part is that he probably really doesn’t care either way as it won’t directly benefit him yet his actions are having such huge repercussions for those who actually live there.

rustybin

You can't ignore the treaty, make a land grab, start a war as the aggressor, lose and then decide "actually, we will agree to the terms of treaty after all.'

All bets are off.

weaviemx5

Do you mean in 1948 or more recently?

Bl4ckGryph0n

Well, the UN had a different intention but didn’t really follow through did they. It’s clear which two countries did and Palestine ain’t one of them. All this waivering doesn’t help anyone. I’m glad the US finally delivered on their promise. This beautiful and ancient city needs to be protected.