Working at Amazon

weaviemx5

Short term immigration might be beneficial to business. It provides a cheap labour force.

Long term it could be damaging. Really we should be less reliant on cheap foreign labour and investing in our own workforce.

There's no incentive to do that if you can get it from elsewhere.

It also drives down wages. Great for business if you have cheap labour costs. Again initially. Not so good long term. If people have low wages they have little disposal income so not much to spend.

I don't see how an unhappy low wage workforce is good for the country or relying on a transient one.

Bl4ckGryph0n

No, I appreciate that an increase in migrants puts strain on Government services, although statistically, EU migrants have less reliance on the NHS than our own ageing population.  In contrast, migrants do put more strain on schools etc but also pay more into the economy than they take out so there seems to be a certain amount of balance, at least on paper.

weaviemx5

Sadly, I agree that using zero hours contracts (which by definition have no guarantee of actual regular work/pay) to classify someone as ‘employed’ is seriously stretching the definition!

We could also go the other way and question the Government supplied statistics surrounding the number of EU nationals coming to the U.K. to work but that’s a whole other can of worms ;0)

Bl4ckGryph0n

Really? - ZHC's have been around forever and many people have made a living out of them without any problems. Most hourly paid contract work has never had any guaranteed hours - you just get paid for the work you do. Take journalists  - they get a contract from someone like the Guardian to write 500 words on how much of a disaster Brexit is going to be, they have no guarantee of work yet many survive quite well on the system.

weaviemx5

I just don’t see how someone potentially getting a few hours work per week is ‘employed’? I know the idea is that ZHCs are good for the employer and employee but do you think the majority of people working in places like Amazon warehouses (not freelance journalists) choose them for their flexibility?

Bl4ckGryph0n

Yes I do. I know plenty of people who have multiple of such contracts and can fit it in with their lifestyle.

And in my own personal experience, if you are any good at what you do then you’ll never be out of work.

Pacifico

I have no idea why they choose to work at amazon. What I do know is that when McDonalds gave all of its employees who were on ZHC's the chance to go on a fixed hours contract most of them refused because it suited their lifestyle to stay on ZHC. I would also correct one error that you are making, just because it is a ZHC that doesn't mean it is only a couple of hours a week - I have had contracts with no guaranteed hours and they ended up being some of the longest work weeks of my entire career.

weaviemx5

Looking at the articles around the time (April 2017) there's clearly some conflict within the McDonald's workers.  They complain about the ZHC pay rate (wanting a £10 per hour minimum) but up to 80% of staff turned down fixed term contracts when they were offered to 115,000?

McDonald’s offers fixed contracts to 115,000 UK zero-hours workers

I'm not sure what the answer is, but using McDonald's as one of the largest employers that uses ZHC, if people are generally happy with the irregular hours offered, but unhappy with the resulting inability to plan financial futures with regards to mortgages/childcare etc, what are they supposed to do?

With regards to your personal ZHC example, were those longest weeks of your career more the norm or irregular?  That is, having a few weeks with a lot of hours (I'm not sure what your working history is, but comparing to an average 37.5 hours FT week), were they normally followed by a few weeks' of little hours or were they consistent?

Sonic67

See post 8. My missus is currently working nights at Asda. It's not set days. It's as and when needed.

Right now it's a lot.

She's not the main breadwinner. She just wants some money for her own independence. It wouldn't suit everyone but it does suit her.

Q&A: What are zero-hours contracts?

Why some people do it:

Zero hours: 'It suits my lifestyle'

Bl4ckGryph0n

We've already had this discussion.

Those who design, build, maintain and operate the automation will be on much higher wages.