Trumps State visit- Monday 3rd June

Sonic67

How safe is chlorine-washed chicken?

But it is hard to make comparisons between two different studies that use different methodologies.

Toko Black

If all other things were equal, yes.

However they aren't.
The increased levels of bacteria and contamination on US chicken because of poor welfare and hygiene standards essentially requires chlorine washing to bring it down to levels closer to that of chickens that weren't battery farmed and poorly processed.
There is on average less bacteria and contamination on UK non chlorine washed chickens than US produced chlorine washed ones.
i.e even with chlorine washing, the average US chicken has more bacteria than a UK chicken.

Washing in the factory is not the same as washing at home just to be clear for everyone.
The advice on not washing chicken is for food preparation at home/in a restaurant.

While chicken or other meats/foods are produced, processed and distributed, any residual bacteria in and on the product has time to reproduce, so when it hits the supermarket shelves then gets bought and unpacked in a household kitchen, the level of bacteria will be considerably more than it was.
Hence not washing it as you prepare to cook it.

Pacifico

The farming organisation Sustain said selling chlorine washed chicken in the UK might cost the NHS up for £1bn extra every year
​ - pure hyped speculation

IronGiant

Is that a Net or Gross figure?  Seriously, those figures are for all cases of food poisoning, not just chicken,  if I read it right.

Edit: I have no intention of buying US chicken, by the way

springtide

The article was talking about poultry, so assumed it was continuing to do so.

The argument against chlorine washed is that hygiene standards can be dropped elsewhere, and generally are in the USA to keep costs as low as possible.

I don't have much against buying imported foods (apart from wanting to support local, environmental concerns from transport etc etc), but I am against lowering food quality and/or farming/animal welfare standards.

I read somewhere (but can't find it now) that the USA produces chicken at roughly 20% lower than UK chicken, so this could potentially introduce cheaper foods into the UK.

IronGiant

Actually here is some evidence that casts an interesting light on that.

Foodborne illness is on the rise. Here's why - CNN
Donnelly noted that "the percentage of overall foodborne disease outbreaks linked to restaurant settings increased to 60% in 1998-2015, while outbreaks reported in the home dropped significantly to 8%."

If it was unsafe food from farms, why such a difference?

The whole European market for eating out was worth €483bn in 2016. I haven't bothered to convert to dollars.

Topic: Restaurants and food services in Europe

In the USA (with less people) the comparable figure is $782bn. I'm not sure if this includes fast food, so if it doesn't that's another $199bn to add.

Topic: Restaurant industry in the U.S.

They eat out a lot more, and eating out has more risk of food poisoning.

Anyone able to dispute the apparent evidence that the main difference between the eu and USA is eating out?

IronGiant

"The organisation said it calculated the figure based on the foodborne illness rate in the US versus the UK as a percentage of the population."

That link takes you to a US site on many cases of Salmonella:

Outbreaks of Salmonella Infections Linked to Kawaran brand TahiniOutbreaks of Salmonella Infections Linked to Backyard PoultryOutbreak of Salmonella Infections Linked to Frozen Raw TunaOutbreak of Salmonella Infections Linked to Pre-Cut MelonOutbreak of Salmonella Infections Linked to Pet Hedgehogs"CDC estimates Salmonella causes about 1.2 million illnesses, 23,000 hospitalizations, and 450 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for about 1 million of these illnesses."
They discuss various multistate outbreaks but the processed chickens we are discussing aren't mentioned, although I'm sure they will be contained in that 1 million figure somewhere.

Mevlock

No, it does not.

To quote the research again.

“On the basis of available data and taking into account that processing of poultry carcasses (washing, cooking) would take place before consumption, the Panel considers that treatment with trisodium phosphate, acidified sodium chlorite, chlorine dioxide, or peroxyacid solutions, under the described conditions of use, would be of no safety concern.”

I.e. any issues earlier in the production process are dealt with by the process.

As for @Rasczak and his earlier nonsense about "faeces encrusted", here in the UK....

Revealed: the dirty secret of the UK’s poultry industry
The defeathering machines are another high-risk point for campylobacter infection. Slaughtered birds pass first through a scald tank of warm water to loosen the feathers and then through a series of whirring rubber fingers which pull the feathers out. The feathers themselves can be contaminated with faeces, the fingers put pressure on the birds and can squeeze out more faecal matter, and the fingers can become impregnated with bacteria.

In the steamy atmosphere, campylobacter from the feathers can also become airborne. Removing the feathers promptly through the drains is a vital part of food safety, but the evidence provided to us suggests they had piled up for hours as production was allowed to continue at the Anglesey site.

Across the industry, the water in the scald tank is generally only changed once a day, so that by the end of a shift it can become a soup of chicken faeces and dirt. This used to be a high-risk point, but the water is now kept hot enough to kill bacteria. The foam that forms on the top, however, is cooler and bacteria can survive here, according to Spellman, with each bird passing through it as it goes on its way.

Of course if they used a chlorine solution in this process, that bacteria would be washed away.

Cliff

If some of this stuff was on the side of a bus it would be misleading
And I mean from the organisations on both sides of the argument, not the people on here.

Mevlock

quoting the actual research here:

"The Panel emphasises that its up-date of the previous opinion of the Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures Relating to Public Health (SCVPH) with regard to toxicological risks to public health of residues and possible reaction products arising from the use of the antimicrobial substances only concerns the described conditions of use. The Panel also took into consideration that processing of poultry carcasses (washing, cooking) would take place before consumption."

It reads to me that they are refering to what happens AFTER the chlorination process, ie. either at home, or in a restaurant or cooked chicken products.