What is the definition of ‘the will of the people’?

Sonic67

"Will of the people" is a general term from a French philosopher. See the link given above. In fact it is more accurate as "General Will" but is shortened to "Will." It's not entirely wrong to use it, even if it isn't your "will." It's talking about "the people" and "the people" voted to leave. Not every single person voted for it, but according to the rules regarding voting, the vote was to leave.

If there was another vote I remember how everyone was convinced the vote then would be to Remain.

Nigel Farage says 'it looks like Remain will edge it' as polls close

Nigel Farage has said "it looks like Remain will edge it" as polling stations closed across the UK in the EU referendum.

The UKIP leader said he believes Britain has voted to remain in the European Union, on the basis of exit polls privately conducted by his friends in the city.

If there was another vote, note a few things.

Generally polls can put you ahead now, by the time an actual vote happens you are a few months down the line. Theresa called an election as she was flying in the polls. By the time the actual vote happened it was a hung parliament. Polls are inaccurate and leads can vanish. You are better off being slightly behind in polls on the day of a vote. People will turn out if they are behind but more likely not to if they think the vote is won anyway.

Last time, all the political parties except UKIP supported Remain. If there was another it might mean the main parties actually backing some kind of leave, let alone others. Being proRemain hasn't exactly done much for the LibDems.

Last time, there was a huge amount of project fear where everything was promised from WWIII, to punishment budgets, recession and high unemployment just for voting to leave, not even including actually leaving. None of that happened. It's going to be far harder to sell dire consequences for voting the wrong way when it didn't happen last time.

We never had an actual leaver in charge. May came back with a deal that didn't suit anyone. Put a leaver in charge and you might get someone who will at least promise and deliver on leaving. At least half the UK will be happy.

The EU. The EU kept quiet on an EU army then put it back on the table as soon as the referendum was over and now does deployments. The EU has spent a lot of time making cheap jibes at May, leavers and the UK. "A special place in hell is reserved for them" etc. When will people learn? It was being told by Obama we'd be "at the back of the queue" which got people's backs up last time. People will turn out and vote in spite of you.

The EU also has numerous other worries. Italy for one. It will probably need a bail out. From who? Germany is almost in recession. France can't take more in taxes, it has rioting for fun every weekend. Where is the EU's money going to come from to save Italy? Take a guess. If people don't like paying £10 billion a year to the EU how will it be when the EU wants more?

Give it a few months of leave telling people, project fear didn't work, the EU is intransigent, a leaver will actually deliver leave and political parties not able to take a side and it will all be a lot more muddy than last time. Last time the vote to leave was a huge shock to everyone. Another time and people will be used to the idea.

Pacifico

True.

But here, in the referendum, it was agreed that an open vote for those 18  who were UK citizens and a decision of 50% 1 of those voting would be how we measured the will of the people.

The will of the people was to leave the EU.

Toko Black

So what are you suggesting we replace Democracy with?

Surely the whole essence fo Democracy is that you dont always get your own way?

Pacifico

I didn't suggest we should replace it, merely not follow it blindly regardless of the consequences in the belief that it is immutable.

Sonic67

Well if you are not going to follow democracy then you have to replace it with something, if only temporarily. So what is your preferred option - dictatorship?.

Or perhaps get the EU to install a Technocrat as supreme ruler like they had in Greece with Lucas Papademos or in Italy with Mario Monti?

Toko Black

When should you replace it? Who decides when democracy doesn't apply? Who could have that authority and how do you stop them?

Sorry to bring in Godwin's Law, but once Hitler had power democratically he used "emergency powers" to make sure democracy wouldn't then get in the way of what he wanted.

Who is going to have the authority on what people can and can't vote on, and what happens when it goes wrong?

We had a vote to leave the EU. We have been the UK far longer. Want to ban all votes on Scottish Independence?

If leaving the EU is a disaster then polls will presumably be tipped massively against leaving and there will then be another vote on re-entry.

Democracy can fix things as well as break them.

Pacifico

All we need to do is fallback to the representative democracy we have using parliamentary sovereignty.

It is still perfectly democratic for Parliament to rollback any laws or conditions that were put in place after and because of the brexit referendum.

Arguing that we can't is a perception of an interpretation of an implementation of democracy not an absolute fundamental principle. It's an attempt to use sound Bites and cliches to establish an absolute right.

Even our parliamentary constitution is open to interpretation and judgements rather than being a rigid structure and code. However one of the most important and central tenants of our constitutional democracy is parliamentary sovereignty which overrides all. That includes interpretations of the will of the people.

Sonic67

I would just point out that it was Parliament who voted overwhelmingly to hold a referendum and it was Parliament who voted overwhelmingly to implement the result of that referendum..

I do agree though that it would help if some Parliamentarians were honest about their intentions and just campaigned to scrap A50 instead of the shenanigans we have seen so far.

Pacifico

No problem.

We had a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum by a political party so it could be in charge of parliament.

The political party was elected partly as a result of that pledge.

The party got in power and delivered on the pledge and held a referendum.

Parliament agreed to hold the referendum and to honour the result.

Since then there was another general election with two of the main parties still pledging to leave the EU and at least one pledging not to.

The referendum has passed every political and parliamentary test.

Toko Black

Yet nothing that you have said there limits or override parliament's ability to legally and democratically revoke article 50 under parliamentary sovereignty.

Neither of the two parties capable of forming a government offered an alternative to brexit, nor did either manage to attain a parliamentary majority.