Do you support the Johnson UK-EU deal [17 October version]?

Tempest

Would I be considered bad to make some remark about being sick of the Northern Ireland aspect?

mcbainne

Not at all, just blinkered and naive

Aj33

worked bloody hard for a deal he doesn't want.

Spooksta

16-17 year olds sleep around and drive dangerously.
Nope. They should not vote till 18

Tempest

Remember whilst you can have sex with your boy/girl friend from the age of 16 legally.
If you send your boy/girlfriend a photo of your private parts at the same age you are breaking the law.

Amazing

EarthRod

I have a suspicion there is likely to be a surprising shift in parliament. Close of play on Saturday might stretch a few eyes.

The ayes have it

Stuey1

Why the pretense that you are happy for us to leave? It's blatantly obvious you aren't...

Parliament may know what the answer is and its starting to look like we may know what they think the answer is very soon- its going to be an interesting fortnight that's for sure.

PatMrex

As a leaver I'm not convinced, for a host of reasons and the devil will be in the detail.

I don't think leavers should be too smug about this deal. I see the 'transitional' period another minefield in which certain/many MP's, parties, businesses, lobbyists, activists etc. Try and transition the UK back INTO the EU during this period. The WA is perfectly set-up for that as much as it is for leaving the EU.

Effectively, NI has become a province of the EU and Barnier apparently told EU sources behind the scenes that this agreement is exactly the same as the initial proposal to the UK for annexing NI, worded differently to placate/con Brits.

There is also a hidden cost of unquantifiable money sitting behind the divorce agreement of 39bn tucked away in Art 140 of the WA:

“The United Kingdom shall be liable to the Union for the United Kingdom’s share of the budgetary commitments of the Union budget and the budgets of the Union decentralised agencies outstanding on 31 December 2020 and for the United Kingdom’s share of the commitments made in 2021 on the carryover of commitment appropriations from the budget for 2020.”

2021? After we have left the transitional period. Then, Art 140(5) of the WA states: “At the request of the United Kingdom, made at the earliest after 31 December 2028, the Union shall make an estimate of the remaining amounts to be paid by the United Kingdom under this Article”

It looks to me like Art 140, gives the EU license to run amok with the UK's credit card.

Verhofstadt and Brock have already bragged about making the transitional agreement as long as possible. So, if there is an extension Article 132, 2 d comes into play:

Article 132, 2 (d) says that “for the period between 1 January 2021 and the end of the transition period, the United Kingdom shall make a contribution to the Union budget.”

This fee will be decided in secret by a joint committee with no reference to the UK or its parliament. The UK will also incur annual liabilities in the event of an extension for EU pensions - all EU citizens, sickness benefits for the lifetime of all pensions.

There are many many disadvantages written into the WA already and are full advantage to the EU. Those just mentioned are only the tip of the iceberg. The EU can prolong this period and we know they're notoriously slow for making FTA.

Beware, the devil will be in the detail.

Aj33

I think that means we will still be liable for any financial commitments in 2021 that are unfulfilled from 2020. I suppose that’s there to stop us deliberately under paying. But in this I am no expert.

Would this be because we are paying in instalments? Which cannot be fully paid before 2028. I guess this gives the EU some stability/forecasting potential for budgets. Again, I’m no expert.

either way, the EU would want something for what we got on our side. If it’s money, I’m fairly comfortable with that.

PatMrex

Possibly. But it also reads like the EU can commit as much spending on the UK's credit card before Dec 2020, without the UK having a vote on any of the spending conditions.

I'm not saying the EU will abuse the position they have put themselves in which is a position of power, and will run up a debt on this article alone. But many of the 'agreements' within the WA leave the EU with leverage. And of that, I am naturally suspicious, as I don't believe the EU have shown good faith, thus far in Brexit negotiations. After all, the ink wasn't even dry on May's initial deal before little Napoleon (Macron) started to threaten to 'lock' the UK into the backstop until France & co. had the same kind of access to British territorial waters.