Tolkein is a bad writer - discuss

genji

Well, that's the misuse of deus ex machina for you. In The Hobbit the Eagles arrived and saved the day. Deus ex machina telegraphed and written in triplicate by Tolkien.

Naturally, when Jackson get his hands on it (never having actually finished the book) - he sees Eagles, he assumes deus ex machina rather herald of the new age, which is what they are in LotR. The Eagles do not save the day, they don't help Frodo cast the Ring into the fire, they are present only to pick up the pieces.

What Jackson managed to extrapolate from the Eagles was that deus ex machina is cool in Middle-earth and you can chuck it in wherever you feel like.

I may be reading your sentence wrong but it sounds like you're saying "Denethor was the equal of Gandalf." Denethor was never the equal of Gandalf (a Maiar), not was he the equal of Aragorn (as near to being Numenorean as makes no difference). Denethor was lesser, but still of a noble breed and had managed to defend Gondor for decades.

Yes, but more than that: like Boromir, Denethor existed to show how MEN can be corrupted. So in the book we have Denethor and Boromir displaying the weaknesses of men, but in the glam movie, for some reason, we also need to see this trait being displayed by Faramir. Like we're idiots.

Yes, true. A meaningful and redemptionary character reduced to soap opera conniving by Peter Jacksloln.

Because Jackson's target audience likes bouncing on beds.

Sonic67

Sorry I meant him more as an intellectual equal or equal as being a great leader or 'general'. Denethor had great will and strength and had challenged Sauron. Saruman had been a great wizard but was corrupted by Sauron to evil (or I suppose was corrupted by the desire for the ring.).

Denethor hadn't got that far. He was parked next door to the enemy and so had been ground down over the years. He'd seen his people lost in war etc but there was still nobility left in him (in the book). In the book he is still involved in the defence of Minas Tirith and also calls for aid by lighting the beacons. So still acting as a leader of his people. His belief that Faramir had died finally broke him. In the film Denethor calls on the defenders to flee and overall seems to be pretty useless.

Okay by 'equal' maybe that's still a little dubious as Gandalf being immortal is always going to be a bit wiser on stuff. Equal in the sense that I don't think Gandalf had cause to look down on him and to respect him in the book anyway.

(I need to read the book again though.)

spbone

Without Tolkien, I don't think J.K. Rowling's books would be half as good or a quarter as successful. Lets face it, guys. Whatever she tells us, she MUST have copied of Tolkien. It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

Theydon Bois

Dobby > Gollum

logiciel

Do you mean Gollum> Dobby, and if so, why?
No.

Smurfin

Gollum would eat Dobby for breakfast!

Trollslayer

A good writer, a very good author but idolised.

Theydon Bois

Because Dobby has manners, while Gollum doesnt. Plus, I could leave Dobby to look after my pets or kids and come back and they would be in one piece, and the ironing would be done.

IronGiant

Dobby could also snap his fingers and make Trolls disappear

spbone

Not when considering that Dobby is a free elf, and your kids would probably be frightened of him, and since he's from the magic world, there's not a chance he'll ever work for a muggle or know how to iron anyways. But Dobby ** is dead, too.