The Record The Crystalume Caper

JCAllison

Hey All,
For anyone interested, here is the play list for all the Sensatiation Videos:

youtube sensatiation - Google Search

JC

12harry

May I make a suggestion?... that you join a local Movie-Making club that will have plenty of Gear, and Advice - which can be tested for the cost of membership. This should give you plenty of folk to ask Q  and get answers almost as you speak. In most clubs there will be some that lean towards the video-photo side, the Acting side and possibly the Music-side ( of film-making).
You may find someone that wants to participate in your quest and that means additional help is to hand.
/

As I read earlier you said you wanted to "mix" two distinct audio signals... May I suggest this is fraught with risk... audio levels, noise and possibly (rare!) mistakes. (already suggested by Terfyn, I believe,), Use the camcorder to provide sync ( using any mic,- including the camcorder's internal one, if fitted ),  you can apply different audio tracks to the Timeline on your chosen Video-Editor.
I have used Microsoft's Movie Maker ( "Live" for HD files ) - but found it very limiting.... and frustrating.
If you are attempting an Audio mix then almost any modern Video-Editor about USD50, should provide as many audio tracks as you could want.
The benefit of using the V-E to mix audio is that it can destroy nothing except time itself. You can change the levels, edit faults, apply some tonal correction;  maybe a small "Resonance", so the voice matches the other Audio, etc. etc.
An ideal way of making separate audio tracks is to use a solid-state digital recorder ( e.g. Zoom Corporation, starting about USD100 ). This records to SD-card and will provide plenty of quality recording using its own microphones. You can buy all manner of fancy microphones at different price-points, but most recorders are pretty close to perfect, for voice and music too, IMHO.
You should record the voice in any reasonably quiet room, without the distraction there is a camera pointed at you.
Record the "Take-Number" and any other detail at each Start, so it's permanently on the file - this will be edited by moving the edit point to where the speech-proper begins.
If you are recording someone else ( a Session for example), then large-muff "closed-back" headphones are close to Essential to judge the recording quality. The Recorder level-meters will help prevent clipping - or recording too quiet. These hand-sized recorders are way-ahead of any reel-to-reel analogue recorders you may have known. For a start, you can't overwrite a file!
FWIW, Put-off spending money until you join a local club - and choose Gear/Software that others use - that way you'll have  Tutors on-hand, too.
/
Hope that helps...  Good Luck.

Terfyn

You can take a Line Out from your Multi Track (Example Headphone Out) and connect it to your external mic in on the camera. I would strongly recommend you use an in line attenuator to reduce the signal strength from Line to Mic level before feeding the camera.
Such a piece of kit would be a SESCOM attenuator, it is a short length of cable with the resistor circuit built in, one end is fed from the Multi Track and the other end goes into the camera mic socket. It comes with 3.5mm stereo plugs fitted so you will also need a cable from the Multi Track with a 3.5mm socket on one end. I use mine to connect my keyboard to my camera - works fine.

Incidentally Terfyn is Welsh for "boundary". Our house crosses the boundary between two parishes (church catchment areas) and we have an arrow carved into a stone in the house foundation to denote this boundary.

JCAllison

Hey Mr. 12H,
GREAT SUGGESTION! I see that you live in London. The implementation of your suggestion is EXACTLY what was intended by my joining the AVForum. You see, Onalaska, Texas is a teenincy little town in what is called, here in Deep East Texas,  the "boondocks"!

population of Onalaska , Texas - Google Search

It is populated by a gentry that are quite simple "country" folk who consider me an "outsider" since I was raised in Southern California. The main topics of conversation here are: who has passed on, how to keep the tail-gate on your pick-up truck functional, and who has the meanest Pit-Bull Dog.

I happened to be here because I was "fortunate" enough to be involved in a catastrophic murdercycle crash in 1987, received a substantial insurance settlement, bought a secluded place deep in the forest in 1989 when the population was under 700, intending to recuperate and then get back into the world.

It took till 1998 to regain my physical and mental health.

The last thing that needed doing was a hip replacement. It was during the preparation for THAT, that a terminal auto-immune Liver Disease was discovered. Was given but five months left to live, but, because of the "fortunate" murdercycle crash, the Liver issue was discovered early, just as it had begun, and thus I didn't die.

Was put on medication that suppressed the immune system, and began living a "bubble life" of total seclusion which effectively precluded my returning to the world.

Have for the past twenty years been living the life of a "hermit", with my only connection to the world being the Internet. So as far as joining a Movie-Making Club is concerned, there is no one within fifty miles that has even the slightest idea of being involved in TV production even if I could get out and about.

Would love to have THAT situation... Alas.

Am going to have to grok how to do this. At this point, am suspecting that the actual procedure that will eventually be developed will be somewhat different from the usual methodology since what is being attempted is so different from how Movie Making is conventionally done. The details of the procedure will most likely be worked out using variations of usual procedures.

Suspected as much myself. So THAT is an area that is going to take some work and development.

Actually, the Audio will be relatively simple as it will be produced prior to doing the Video recording. The getting it into the Video along with the extemporaneous Vocal part should be possible, though at this point, am not exactly sure how it will be done. We'll find that out as we go along.

Am sure we can work this out when the time comes.

Will eventually get into the details of doing this. Have to say that being appraised of the possibilities is proving to be quite encouraging.

What is envisioned is to record the voice WHILE playing The Crystalume, making and recording the visual equivalent of what is being said on The Crystalume. This is much like vocalizing while playing a Guitar or Piano, thus the need of a Head-Worn Microphone.

Understanding this perfectly (BTW, you write very well).

Have a number of very nice Headphones. They are used while performing.

Will be getting back to you about the "Hand-Sized Recorders". That is a NEW element (at least to me) in this process.

Actually, there is but a small amount of "Gear/Software" still needed. And since AVForums is going to have to, out of necessity, serve as my "local club", it's going to be up to people here, like yourself, to be my "On-Hand Tutors".

You have opened NEW possibilities, and thanks for the best wishes.

Am more and more encouraged (and less and less daunted) that what we're going to produce will be a quite nice, and very unusual product. We are working with some very unique elements that if we can actually integrate them into what is envisioned will be very interesting. Time will tell.

Anyway, last evening, just before shutting everything down for the day, the AVF was checked, and your very nice response was discovered. When first "lurking" the AVF, a number of the "12Harry" posts were read. Am very glad that you deemed my effort worthy enough to get involved with. Thanks for the response, and I hope this finds YOU doing well.

Take care.

JC

Terfyn

Before you splash out on an audio recorder do a tick list of what is important. The handhelds normally have mics fixed to the front which can be handy but may not fit in with how you want to work.
My example is a stand alone recorder, the Tascam DR-60D MkII which needs mics to plug in - suits me. But I am guessing you want a multi channel recorder that is also a mixer. An example might be the Tascam DP-008EX where you can record a number of tracks and then bounce down to a two track stereo output for your camera.

Video editors. A number of video editors can be downloaded from the internet via a supplier like Amazon. You can also ask for a back up disk.

JCAllison

Hey Mr. T,
Quite possible. The MultiTrack is connected to the Mixer, that is a Yamaha MR1642 Sixteen Channel Mixing Console. through which the MIDI System communicates with the M-Audio Delta 1010LT "IN", and through which the M-Audio Delta 1010LT "Out" communicates with the Amplifiers (a Macintosh 2200 bridged to Mono driving an 18" Road Bass Reflex Cabinet, and a Crown MicroTech 1200 Stereo, driving two stacks of Speakers, each comprised of two 15" JBL CW15 Transducers in 1'-0" Exponential Horns, One Cast Iron Atlas Horn with an ElectroVoice Driver, and twelve Piezo Electric Horn Tweeters). There should be plenty of "Out" Ports available.

[Note: everything italicized in the paragraph above is some of the AllisonWonderland Concert Lightshow Sound System. It is able to play a 1,000 seat Auditorium. There are, of course, more pieces of equipment (Equalizers, Floor Monitors, Mixer, Microphone, Snake, and etc.)]

Will have to find out what all is involved with so doing when the time comes.

When it comes time, we'll get whatever it takes to do it.

All right.

Interesting. Am unfamiliar with the protocols of "parishes" and the terms "church catchment areas". Does the fact that your house "straddles" this boundary line have any "real-world" consequences affecting YOU?

Well, HAD to get out to the grocery store this morning. Doing so is taking my life in my hands, because should contact be made with a "pathogen" (flu, cold, or some other kind of "bug") the chemically suppressed immune system is unable to fight off an infection. Have to be very careful not to come into too close a contact with anyone who is in any manner ill. Am thinking that all is well, but, as usual, will be checking my temperature for the rest of the day just to make sure.

Am back home now, and after taking a bit of a break, am going to, for the first time, see if something that has already been researched can actually be done with the equipment on hand. To wit: Am going to see if the Panasonic AG-DVC10P Camcorder will actually record directly to The Scryer's (that's the name of the DTV Computer, running Win7Pro, and Windows Movie Maker) Hard Disk Drive.

[It might be efficacious at this point to delineate the other Computers that are here:

There is The Scalder. That's the Win10 Internet Cruiser, Word Processor, and all around general computer function machine.

There is The Scorcher. That's the Win2K Graphics Rig running CorelDRAW5, connected to a number of printers.

And finally, there is The Screamer, which is also a WIN2K Music Production Rig with the M-Audio Delta 1010LT Sound Card and Cakewalk Home Studio (Sonar) Producer Software.]

Have the Panasonic Camcorder connected by IEEE 1394 FireWire to a FireWire card:

MACHENIKE PCIe 1394A Firewire Expansion Card 3 Ports, PCI Express (1X) to External IEEE 1394 Adapter Controller (2 x 6 Pin   1 x 4 Pin) for Desktop PC and DV Connection

Have been told that with this setup, and Windows Movie Maker's "capture" function, it is possible to record directly onto The Scryer's 1TB HDD.

Will also have a NEW MiniDV Cassette in the Panasonic Camcorder (because it won't go into "Record" mode without one in the Cassette Port).

What is hoped will happen is that it WILL record directly to the HDD, AND at the same be visible on the Monitor. What do you think the chances/odds are of THAT actually happening?

At the same time, the Panasonic Camcorder is ALSO connected by Composite Video to a Sceptre X32 TV which makes it possible to see what the Camcorder is seeing.

Am personally not giving this a snowflake's chance in a thermonuclear reaction of happening, but am going to give it a try anyway. If it works... GREAT! If it doesn't the we'll have to mess with it till it DOES WORK.

Will keep you all updated if, when, and as progress occurs.

Hope you all are well, and taking care.

JC

JCAllison

Hey Mr. T,
GOOD IDEA!

Since I don't know exactly HOW I want to work, and since I don't know how a "HandHeld" works, am going to first have to find out these two things before doing anything.

Again, all this is pretty much over my head at this point, and until I can get a grasp on what needs be done, and how these devices work, it's too soon to be contemplating them.

[/quote]Video editors. A number of video editors can be downloaded from the internet via a supplier like Amazon. You can also ask for a back up disk.[/QUOTE]

All right, am understanding this. Acquiring a Video Editor is not a problem budget-wise (unless it is terribly expensive). Want to say that I'd like to keep this as simple as possible within the constraints of what I want to do.

Have a Crystalume Student in Atlanta, Georgia, who is doing videos, and putting them on YouTube, and all she has is SmartPhone! What she's doing is surprisingly good!

All right, here's the skinny from this afternoon's effort at trying  to record using the Panasonic AG-DVC10P Camcorder.

Here is how it is set up:

There is a Red, White, and Yellow Composite Video Cable connected to the Camcorder, and to the Sceptre X32 TV. When the Camcorder is turned on there is a remarkably nice image produced on the X32. So far, so good.

There is an IEEE 1394 Firewire Cable (with small fittings on both ends) connected to the Camcorder, and the Win7 PC. So far, so good.

When the Camcorder is ON, can access "Devices and Printers", and it shows the Camcorder, and says it is "working properly". So far, so good.

So this afternoon, turned ON the X32 and the Camcorder, and got the image. The Camcorder was on for about four to five minutes, and then the image disappeared and a "No Signal" notice appeared on the X32.

Turned the Camcorder OFF, and then turned it back ON. The image reappeared on the X32. Then in four to five minutes, the image disappeared, and the "No Signal" notice appeared again. This is  happening every time.

Checked the Power Supply to the Camcorder. It is plugged in, and everything appears to be as it should be.

The "ON" Switch is on but the Camcorder is not functioning. Don't know why the Camcorder is quitting.

Getting that figured out and fixed is going to be necessary. It wasn't doing this the day before yesterday. Had the Camcorder on for a couple of hours, and all was copacetic.

Anyway, got Windows Movie Maker booted, and while the Camcorder was on, clicked on "Import from Digital Video Camera", and got a notice that: "The video device is currently in use. Close any other program that is using the device and try again. If you need to start Import Video again, turn off you import device and then turn it on again."

There are no other programs running.

And then Camcorder shut down again.

At this point, decided to write this post. We are, for all intents, and purposes, dead in the water!

This can all be filed in the Folder labeled: "Why Can't Anything Be Easy?"

Any suggestions?

JC

MarkE19

The camcorder shutting down is just down to the power saving feature when it is idle. To prevent the shutdown leave the tape loading open and it should carry on working. But if not try putting a tape in it and recording to keep the camcorder active - the tape door trick always worked on my miniDV camcorders.

Mark.

JCAllison

Hey Mr. ME19,
Got the shutting down problem solved. It was "my bad" in the way I was  dealing with the POWER switch. Did it properly after finding out how to do it from the Operating Instructions and everything straightened out.

Not necessary now.

BUT, the message that "The video device is currently in use. Close any other program that is using the device and try again. If you need to start Import Video again, turn off you import device and then turn it on again." Still comes up.

While lurking AVF, came across the subject of "enabling DMA (Direct Memory Access) which came with the instructions on how to do that. Alas, got right down to the LAST step, only to find that there is NO tic box that enables DMA.

Am I missing something?

Anyway, am kind of over-done for the day. If I push it, will be incapacitated for a while. Need to shut down and call it a day. Aging is NOT for sissies. Will carry on tomorrow.

JC

JCAllison

Hey All,
Have just spent the entire morning researching the "The video device is currently in use. Close any other program that is using the device and try again. If you need to start Import Video again, turn off your import device and then turn it on again." message problem.

The prognosis is NOT GOOD!

Found an "Official Microsoft Discussion" of the matter which took place in 2014, and ended with the Microsoft Representative/Tech saying that MS was researching the problem, and the discussion ended there.

Other places treating the same issue had solutions that ranged from getting a newer Camera, to changing from Cassettes to Cards, to fingering Firewire as the culprit, among other opinions, but in the final analysis, there was NO SOLUTION.

As mentioned previously, one of the other Crystalumists is using a SmartPhone, and actually getting "some" results, which is more than can be said about the effort taking place here.

Some time ago, the ONLY Computer Guru in the area happened to have been given a NEW SmartPhone by his wife, and he generously bestowed his OLD Unit on me. It is a Samsung Galaxy S3. Have been using it to take JPGs.

Subsequently made an test effort to make video with it, and while it wasn't great, it did at least do something, which is more than can be said for the equipment aggregation that has so far been assembled here.

So this Project is now going to take some re-thinking. Will be forging on through the fog, as this is something that REALLY needs to be done before my time is up.

BTW, have still found no solution to the mystery of how to enable DMA!

Hope you all had a GREAT weekend.

JC