Jeremy Hunt, new Health Secretary, supports homeopathy

sidicks

The NHS isn't free - it costs over £100bn per annum to run, and even with a budget of that size, still fails to provide good service for everyone (hence the recent scandals at 14 different Trusts).

damo_in_sale

My instincts tell me homeopathy is nonsense. It can have no DIRECT impact upon the chemistry of the body.

The placebo effect however is perhaps real. I am sure there are many interesting papers on the subject which I have never read, and so I reserve judgement.

The placebo effect clearly is not going to help if you present with Ebola.

I can however see how the placebo effect MAY help a patient who truly believes in a 'remedy' and is perhaps suffering from a a mild form of depression for instance.

GP's have in the past prescribed me antibiotics in order to treat what they described as 'a virus'. This means that either...

1) They are prescribing me a placebo
2) They are idiots
3) They are not telling the truth

MikeTV

Well, I wouldn't oversell it, actually. I've just been reading that that did used to be the belief, but more recent reviews of the studies have suggested that they have little effect other than in subjective respects such as pain levels, rather than actual clinical outcomes.

So my gut feeling is that if people want to self medicate themselves with placebos such as little bottles of water, or nutritional supplements, they can do that on their own time without the help of the NHS.

damo_in_sale

Is the subjective opinion of a patient regarding pain of no matter?

"Doctor, I no longer feel pain"!

"Don't be stupid, there is no evidence to suggest that you no longer feel pain"!



On the other side of the argument, I once watched a tv program where, from memory, a once very fit bloke had a motorcycle accident and tragically became a quadriplegic. A terribly sad story of a decent man and a father.

The NHS, unsurprisingly, could not help him.

So he went to China where, in my opinion, he was scammed by a doctor who convinced him that they had radical new stem cell treatment. The hospital was full of people who previously 'couldn't' walk, but miraculously could after the 'treatment'. Strangely, none of those example patients appeared to be westerners with any money.

On return to the UK, the bloke went to see his doctor. The chap was convinced that he could wiggle a finger more effectively than previously, and bless him he clearly hoped that this was a sign of better things to come. The doctor could see no improvement.

In this, very tragic, case, the chap clearly perceived a benefit, but alas there was none that any outside observer could perceive.

damo_in_sale

I can tell you now that, from my experience, placebos do often work on children when the ailment is very modest.

I am however awaiting to have my experience confirmed by people who are far more clever than myself before I can know for sure

Toko Black

The placebo effect works when the ailment is linked in some way to the patients 'sense' of well being, that is to say, the placebo only effects or affects the patients state of mind.
Aches and and pains for example can't be 'cured' by a placebo, but since the sensation of pain is merely an interpretation of signals in the brain, the level of pain or discomfort felt can be reduced purely by fooling the patient into believing it will be.

It can help the bodies natural healing process but only from the perspective of positive thinking by the mind increasing the bodies production of the necessary proteins and increased immune response - rather than a drug that directly activates the production.

My personal opinion is that any homeopath or other alternative medicine provider that advertises the ability to 'cure' anything should be tarred, feathered and chased out of town on the back of a mule.

johntheexpat

Or 4) They feel pressure to prescribe something regardless of its efficacity, because patients belief in medicine is actually way beyond medicines actual abilities.  The GP will normally justify the anti-biotics on the grounds of preventative medicine and opportunistic infections, knowing this is tosh.

It's one of the peverse benefits of the sometimes slow response of the NHS, that many things are best cured by time and readily available painkillers, rather than active intervention.  So by not getting treatment, you actually get the best treatment.

Sonic67

Was also ordered by TB to be Labour candidate for London Mayor too and lost out to Red Ken.

Stuey1

I am pretty sure if Ben Goldacre was asked if we should fund homeopathy he would laugh and respond NO instantly...

There are big problems with the trials system worldwide but if that is the best defence for giving patients expensive water then it shows how poor homeopathy really is...

I can't think of a single drug mentioned in bad pharma that had potentially fatal effects (at least more than any other drug), some first stage trials went wrong but that would be expected even with a fully functional system.

karkus30

Yes, but that's another story about economics and the free market. However for the purposes of this discussion they are very different. Proper drugs and operations are effective. It doesn't matter if they are free or paid for as far as the patient is concerned. A splint on an arm helps a broken arm to heal.

Mind stuff is entirely different. The reason is that the patient has chosen their illness unconsciously and manifested it consciously. They get a positive payback from this. To break that unconscious decision requires 100% commitment by the patient when using voodoo of any type. The person must be so fed up with the problem they are willing to do anything to get rid of it. One of the best ways is the pledge of money. Money is only useful if it has been worked for. It is expended energy and represents choice/value. It is an important motivator as it represents the will to move beyond the blockage. I have also used ordeal therapy to obtain good results but its not so effective as the client has to be trusted to carry through the ordeals ( a kind of self punishment ).

Mind stuff and some herbs was all the ancient tribes had. That's what the shaman used. It was often full of ritual ordeals. You can help the mind heal the body. So for instance you can use hypnotism and clean language to save someone from shock induced death, it isn't as good as blood plasma, drugs, ventilator and oxygen, but its better than giving neutral or negative feedback if none of those things are available and can act as additional support when they are.