Should NHS workers get a pay rise?

Toko Black

Nope. As a nurse I am worse off now than 5 years ago. I have not had a pay rise for years. It's been capped. Also pay is on performance often- under agenda for change there are gateways for pay rise.

People talk about how private sector pay the wages etc? Care homes pay £15 plus a per hour and more down south.

Enki

Yes but the last few intakes are reduced numbers. Indeed intakes have gone form 3 per year to one per year as a result. So though the immediate ramification is not felt it will be in time.

nheather

If only the economy was so simple .... but then there are exports, demands for services and goods, levels of employment, production and materials costs, house prices, interest rates etc which are all factors in effecting inflation.

Some jobs, roles and services simply do not fit well into 'productivity' or 'performance' ratings just like there are plenty of jobs, roles and services that are not suited to investments for fiscal returns, because their goals and fundamental aims are to help, protect or care for people rather than turn a profit for investors.

Charging around and hitting everything in sight with the 'magic money tree' and the 'performance pay' hammer sounds superficially great as a rallying cry for the right wing freemarketteers, but life and society just doesn't operate that way.
Just like if we nationalise everything and have the state control all means of production, suddenly you find a lot of people not giving two hoots about work ethic or innovation, free markets and treating everything like a business to make a profit is just as bad and blind to the shortfalls.

Ruperts slippers

But less per patient than ever before.

Jeremy Hunt is not very convincing when when he repeats this mantra, never more doctors and nurses than ever before, like it's just  those disciplines that constitute the personnel of the  NHS, but home goals are home goals I suppose.

Enki

Because if the way the question was posted I had to vote NO.  Have no problem with those that deserve it getting pay rises but I am against blanket pay rises.

Cheers,

Nigel

Bl4ckGryph0n

I posted this on the brexit thread, more appropriate for this thread.
I think we need a
1. Healthy nation message/drive.
2. Revise the shift patterns.
3. Pay rises linked to various performance initiatives. Sick pay to be discretionary.
4. Forget about this equality/feelings nonsense, hierarchy and order needs to be restored.
5. Collaborative management, the NHS needs to stop being so protective and precious, mistakes happen, openness and cooperative nature, a willingness to investigate will improve the service.
6. Staff, not really Dr/Consultants, need to look at the definition of professionalism, language, tone, appearance general behaviour whilst in the work place. The General Public are customers and should be treated as such. The NHS has an image problem.
7. Pay off older, unproductive, militant staff, the organisation is riddled with these types.
8. The NHS needs to change the internal politics between the management, front line and the consultants, stop the pandering.

nheather

I only know the NHS as a 'customer' and my impression is that there are good hard working effective nursing staff but there are also lazy and ineffective nursing staff - same for all industries.

I know Central Government first hand through my work and Education second hand through my wife who is a teacher.

My observation is that the policy to move you up a rung of the ladder (if you have head room) breeds a number of poor characteristics.

1) The false premise that because you have been in the role for another year you are better at it and therefore, should be paid more.

2) The attitude of "it doesn't matter how I do my job" at the end of the year my pay will increase by this much, regardless of whether I work my socks off or cruise".

3) The attitude of "I won't apply for that higher band job because the pay isn't that much higher and more will be expected of me".  In teaching it is difficult to fill the 'Head Of' and senior management roles for this very reason.

They need to get rid of the ladders and this idea of just because you have been in role another year you are better at it.

And the ladders hamper hard workers just as much as they reward lazy ones.

My wife chose a mid-life change in career.  She left her job as Finance Director to become a Maths Teacher, reducing her salary to 25% of what it previous was.

Now because of the way the union-control pay scales work, her maturity, man management, department management, customer relation skils count for nothing and she started at the bottom of the lowest band.

She constantly outperforms many of the teachers on much higher salaries than her but that counts for nothing.  This year, she got a message from the head of department congratulating her that her class had the biggest improvement that he had ever seen in his career.  She took on a class with a mix of predicted A, B and C grades, she worked hard with them and every one passec with A grades.  But that counts for nothing - she still gets paid by the lazy PE teacher who cruises with a very cushy life because he has been there longer than she has.

BTW my wife is content with the situation, it is me that thinks it is wrong, primarily because I work in private sector where that situation could be addressed (not saying it would, the Private Sector has its problems too).

Cheers,

Nigel

Jezza99

It's funny how those on benefits are always in favour of higher taxes......

Bl4ckGryph0n

I’d love to give everyone a pay rise as well, my stance isn’t to suggest that some of the people don’t deserve it.

But as a society we got to be realistic about what it means when everyone gets a blanket payrise all the time.

nheather

I wonder how people value tradesman with their own money.

Imagine you contracted a painter to decorate your lounge.  You found him unreliable, slow, lazy and his work was mediocre.

If he approached you the following year to do more work but at a higher rate because he had moved up a rung in the career ladder, would you take him on.

Doubt you would, but what if you had no choice, what if the rules said that you had to continue using him and at the higher rate - bet you wouldn't be happy.

I find that many socialists are quick to preach how to spend other's money but when it comes to their own they are more likely to behave in a conservative manner.

Cheers,

Nigel