Catalonia declares Independence- What happens now?

dannnielll

In reading this and other threads on other fora, I have formed the opinion that British people do not understand the role of a written consitution. The Constitution is the single fundamental document or contract between the individual and the state. It defines the territory, defines who or what is a citizen, the rights of the citizen and how laws will be enacted.

, The Catalan people voted in 1978 to a consitution which defined their rights and the rights of the other republics making up the federation which is Spain.  The central government in Madrid are sworn by oath of office to uphold and defend the Constitution. The regional government in Barcelona likewise had sworn the same oath. The courts are required to dispense justice in the name of the consitution, and must strike down laws enacted by any of their parliament's if it is their view that law is in conflict with the consitution.

A consitution can be altered by a referendum, in which all the stakeholders or citizens of the state have an equal vote.  All the citizens includes those in  Galicia,  Madrid as well as Barcelona. It is not open to either the central government or the regional governments to change the consitution... It can only be done by a national that is all the peoples of Spain voting to make a change. For the Catalan region to become independent, and a full functioning EU member, if it wishes, requires a two or three stage process.
Stage one involves encouraging the central government to hold a national referendum. This is called politics, making alliances with other regions , horse trading etc..
Stage two hold the full national referendum and campaign for a redefinition of the national territory. This involves  making  alliances  with voters in both their region and other regions
Stage three. In the event of  a positive ,in their view , amendment to the consitution, have a plebesite in their own region, and if a majority, then declare independence, and with the positive backing of Spain, seek to join the EU if that is what they wish..
Its a novel idea and it goes by the name of  democracy.

Bl4ckGryph0n

..., just don't subscribe to the unnecessary violence...

And please copy your sources. It is really bad etiquette to pretend it is your own, despite spelling mistakes.

dannnielll

I am familiar with the concept of plagiarism. There is no pretence here. All the text and all the concepts are my own. I live in a society which has a written consitution so I am familiar with its workings.
You can agree or disagree with what I have written, but to make the comment you have made is classic deflection.
If you read a modern written consitution,   the USA one and the Irish one are both accessible in English, you will see the validity of what I have written. Tom Paine, wrote a treatise on the construction of a consitution.  I suspect that the actual text of the Spanish consitution would be as inaccessible to you as it to me, but the principles are universal.

Bl4ckGryph0n

As I said the violence by the government was disproportionate to the act of having a non binding vote.

dannnielll

Your referendum was non binding , because by custom and practice, there is no higher authority in the UK than a bill passed by your parliament .. both houses. Not even the executive... The ministers cannot override parliament. So the referendum could only be viewed as advisory.. giving advice to those who had the power to make a decision.

dannnielll

I can readily agree that the response of the central government was crass, inept, and yes disproportionate, but it was not illegal. They fell neatly into the trap set  for them. The decision of the catalan parliament  to hold the referendum was on the other hand, provocative, illegal and I hesitate to use the word, but must...  sedition.
The subsequent action by that Catalan parliament, of a  declaration of independence, proves the lie of it being a non binding vote.
Other commentators have argued that the EU should step in to mediate. I don't think so. That was presumably part of the catalan strategy, as it would have put them on a par with the central government and de facto a sovereign state. The EU and the international community recognises the importance of written consitutions, and the sovereignty of states and would not lightly intervene.

Bl4ckGryph0n

I don’t disagree that the subsequent act of declaring independence was wrong. My issue is purely with the disproportionate violence. The government could have dealt with this peacefully and they choose not to do that.

rustybin

But the Spanish Government is democratically elected and directly accountable. If the Spanish people aren't happy with what happened and their response, they've got the ballot box. I believe Catalans have got an election next month too.

Democracy is ace.

Jezza99

Indeed. unless people vote to leave the EU of course, in which case it becomes rather inconvenient for some.

Bl4ckGryph0n

I'm not arguing against democracy, even in a democracy the police should use proportionate force. We'll see what happens in the official elections..