SNP - Planning to Spend 5 Years Winding Up Tories?

Sonic67

Sonic appears to be suggesting the manifesto line

Scotland has a representative representation in Westminster, so are democratically selected to vote in the HOC as they see fit, in this case a law pertaining to English Trading hours would have a knock on affect to Scottish constituents and the Scottish MP's voted accordingly

Would you have been as annoyed if it was Labour or LibDem MP's from Scotland who had voted the same way as the SNP did?

The failure of the bill was solely down to the Tories not proposing the legislation under EVEL which is the mechanism that the Tories think is the answer to the West Lothian Question

Sunday trading and the limits of EVEL

Sonic67

Yes. Obviously you are missing the point. My problem is others governing England and Wales.

I would have no problem if it was down to Labour or LibDem MP's from England and Wales.

BobbyMac

All MP's get where they are because of an electorate putting them there. It was voters that got a bloody nose.

BobbyMac

Others aren't governing, it was one bill that the Tories fudged by not precluding the Scottish MP's under EVEL, no-ones democratic rights where abused especially when it was a vote that would affect Scottish Voters

It's why EVEL is unworkable and we should federalise the whole system or go our seperate ways

The other point is for example the fox hunting bill there would be Tory Voters against fox hunting but still voted Tory, would it have been undemocratic if the fox hunting bill had passed?

Sonic67

Yes I would be just as annoyed if it was Labour or LibDem MPs from Scotland voting the same way as the SNP did.  Why wouldn't I?  This is about MPs from one part of the UK voting on matters for which they cannot be held accountable.  It makes a mockery of democracy.

And the line on this would have a knock on effect is simply nonsense.  On that basis, everything could impact Scotland.  But in this particular case, it is utter bollocks because Scotland has the very same Sunday trading laws that they blocked in England.

The SNP are doing this to play to their home electorate and try and stir up ill feeling with the rest of the UK to increase the demand for independence on all sides.  And it is working.

If the SNP continue to derail democracy in the remainder of the UK then I hope they do leave!

If there were a referendum now for England to leave the UK, I'd likely vote Yes.

Sonic67

And I'd thank you for it

BobbyMac

We need our own parliament as others have.
Voters lobby their MP and ask how they intend to vote. If you are in a marginal seat you as an MP may listen and may not vote with the government even if it is yours.

BobbyMac

Hmm.  As recently as 2013 Alex Salmond was predicting a second oil boom.

Salmond: Scotland’s ‘oil boom’ to bring billions

And as things stand, Scotland is running a level of deficit about double that of the rest of the UK due to the low oil price.

Scotland's economy: GERS figures shows deficit up as oil revenue falls - BBC News

You can try and deny that an independent Scotland would be reliant on oil.  How would you make up the 10% budget deficit that you would have today if you were independent?

Sloppy Bob

On ipad so don't have time to summarise re Gers, so you'll have to do with a link to WoS

The five key facts about GERS

An iS wouldn't be paying its 10% share of trident, would be claiming all it's whisky duty, all its own VAT currently accrued in the big retailers HQ in England, could raise taxes for those that could afford it, could cut services that aren't frontline or borrow money, basically all the levers any country has at its disposal

it would have to cut its cloth to suit, however it wouldn't necessarily need to ape Westminster ideological driven austerity drive

BobbyMac

Those are facts are they?

So key fact 1 is that Scotland is a mess, and it is the UK governments fault.

Is that the same Scotland which the SNP says would be the 8th richest country in the world?  Oh my god.  How badly must Scotland have been governed to be the 8th richest country in the world?

Key fact 4 was fun too.  So one of the foundations of Scottish Independence would be to repudiate their share of UK debt.  Nice.  That will convince the money markets that Scotland will stand behind their obligations and let them borrow to fund their 10% deficit at a nice, cheap rate.