Young people not so proud of being English

justincase

Too true.....It has been around as long as the game..
Only an extension of rival schools,estates,villages,towns counties,countries etc

weaviemx5

I'm not against patriotism?  My point all along has been that the English flag and the displaying of it has been given a bad reputation as a direct result of groups like football hooligans and Britain First etc.  You can't blame those that see it negatively and ignore those that are abusing it with their supposed 'patriotism'.

weaviemx5

There's nothing new about being English either?

Toko Black

I can't speak for 'the left', only for myself as slightly left of centre - however, I am reasonably sure that I am not alone in feeling how I do, that is as follows:

That being proud can be good, bad or a mixture of both. It can be tinged with joy, sadness or a mixture of both.
It can lead to acts of courage, blind stupidity or a mixture of both.
The history of our country, wars, legal and social systems are rife with examples of things to be both proud of and things to be ashamed of.
We can be proud of the selfless sacrifices and actions of individuals, while ashamed by the need, actions or decisions by others that lead them to having to.

Pride without being tempered by humility and reflection can and often does lead to acts of shame.

There are people who only see the pride and people who only see the shame - both can and often do lead to polarised and skewed perspectives that are the cause of social injustice, prejudice, hostility and violence within our societies and our interactions with others.

Any individual human being can feel proud of aspects of their countries history, of other individuals or heroes and of the progress that society has made, but that does not mean they should feel that because they are a descendant of that history/society, that it makes them superior to an individual from another country, society, group or belief system. Nor should someone who feels ashamed of their countries history believe themselves or individuals from their own group/nation are worse than any others.

rancidpunk

Exactly, you surely shouldn't have one without the other. Personally, pride, and shame, is a personal thing relating to your own achievements and those you have had direct involvement in. I feel no need to rewrite it's definition.  Feeling shame or pride for the actions of others, that I have zero involvement in, is just bizarre.

Sonic67

Welsh national anthem - "Land of my Fathers." Not inclusive is it? What about any migrants now living in Wales? Also seems a little warlike.

Scottish National Anthem - Flower of Scotland
Also talks of war and not inclusive.

"But we can still rise now,
And be the nation again,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again."

We could use this:

                               
Shouldn't offend anyone.
Ken Livingstone as London mayor used to throw money at celebrating St Patrick's day in London but wouldn't celebrate St George's day. In the nation's capital!

Sonic67

So isn't the idea about "taking it back?" If you were a Muslim and terrorists were saying being a Muslim was what they were doing, would you do nothing? Accept being a Muslim was shown as being a negative image?
There is something new about the resurgence of displaying England. Hence the posts above regarding Scottish devolution, England flags rather than Union Flags etc.

Again, go back in time to '66 and it would have been Union Flags at the World Cup. For this one it will be England flags.

justincase

I bet it would offend someone some how lol

Sonic67

Agree, sort of. I've always been against those singing "two world wars and one world cup," as I wasn't involved in any of it.

Same as on the football threads I wonder at those who boast about "their" team winning something and being better than anothers. Their team won it, not them.

Cliff

You are born in a country which your forefathers developed and it has a distinct culture. You are proud to be part of that.  It's not specific to England. The same goes for all countries. Its citizens are proud to represent their country.