Should Britain remain a 'Tier One' Military Power?

Trollslayer

But not manufacture.

Sonic67

The pic above shows the bits we do.

What would you prefer instead? F-18? Much older and how much are we making of that? What?

Trollslayer

A mix of Typhoons with A-10s thrown in for ground support.
At least Typhoons can talk to our missiles.

Sonic67

Neither is carrier based. So you want us to give up on that?

Also the A-10 is a single use aircraft and very old. You won't see the use of an aircraft only good for one thing anymore and certainly we'd never buy such an aircraft.

Also that means years of purchasing parts from the US. Unless we pay to produce it under license.

Sonic67

Doesn't he live in France?

French military forces deployed in operations abroad

IronGiant

Yes he does.

woody10381

The aft fuselages are manufactured in Lancashire. It has enabled the construction of one of the most advanced manufacturing facilities in the world.

justincase

No i don't and will also pay no taxes in France either ,does that not entitle me to a point of view then.....I refuse to be fleeced so the elites can play their political games or squander money on needless projects....If they used the taxes for worthy causes i would gladly contribute...

You all may wish for Britain to remain a tier 1 military power,that is your choice, but if it was a voluntary contribution to pay for it how many of you would be reaching for your wallets to pay for it,,very few i reckon

So would you consider that a success

No just pointing out double standards

Don't begrudge anyone trying to make a living at all and if people want to take heroin that is their choice but are you basically saying that the western democracies involved in Afghanistan facilitated the production and distribution of this drug..
They are Muslims ( lets be frank about this they are no more god fearing people than i am ),,they are making money from drugs,

So why did they wait and use the invasion of Poland to justify it and were so poorly prepared...
The holocaust and the treatment of a lot of other ethnic groups would have been reason enough in my opinion to go to war, a very valid reason indeed but are you saying that the uk government  knew it was going on and didn't care or didn't know it was happening..Just trying to establish the real reason of Britains declaration of war

Most of the world wouldn't have even had an idea that Germany existed then and a fair number don't know  much about it now

No and while the people allow it to go on in their names  not much will change

Don't think it means  if you want peace,declare war

Sonic67

This worthy?

Navy has rescued 18,000 migrants in the Mediterranean | Daily Mail Online

HMS Monmouth seizes £65M of heroin and cannabis in major drugs bust

As before, the forces are also used for humanitarian reasons. Flooding, fire-fighting, foot and mouth, Ebola. It's a long list. Forces aren't sat around doing nothing.
No chance. It still seems to me there is almost overwhelming support to keep the Falklands garrison. How much is that? The first duty of government is the protection of its people. How many turn out to parades, wear a poppy, went to Wootton Bassett?
Obviously.
Or your ignorance.
Afghanistan was the third most poverty struck country in the world. It may still be. Google it. How would you support your family in such a situation? No benefits, no health care, no jobs.

The country is still heavily affected by the aftermath of the Soviet invasion. The Soviets were an atheist nation that wanted Afghanistan to be a communist client country. They saw their client state spinning out of control so they invaded Afghanistan like they had done in Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968. They did a coup de main which gained control of the central government but not the surrounding countryside.

Afghanistan was in full revolt at the time and the Afghan army couldn't cope. The politburo didn't want to be seen to be defeated. Their army was trained for large scale rapid tempo operations not fighting a platoon commanders war against small indigenous forces only fighting when terrain was to their advantage.

Back in the Soviet Union no one was taking charge of it and Soviet leaders were coming and going very quickly. Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, then finally Gorbachev. Most all a victim of failing health.

Mao Zedong had said of counter insurgency: "The guerrilla must swim in the people as the fish swims in the sea."

The Soviet answer to this had been to kill the fish by draining the water.

From 1980 to 1985 they bombed granaries, and rural villages, destroyed crops and irrigation systems, mined pastures and fields, destroyed herds and conscripted young men. The whole country's infrastructure fell apart.

Their actions in Afghanistan caused 1.3 million people to die, and forced 5.5 million Afghans (a third of the nation) to flee the country as refugees. Another 2 million moved within the country.

It's why the country is still in such a mess now.
What?

Getting up before dawn to pray is done by choice? If it was "choice" wouldn't you prefer to choose to stay in bed?

On one day in Afghanistan I was going to be packing off three interpreters on a helicopter. They'd managed to miss the previous one I'd arranged so this time I was accompanying them at the helipad and waiting for the flight. The temperature was over 40C. I got them some water bottles and they put it in their packs. When I commented on why they didn't drink some they reminded me it was Ramadan and they couldn't drink it yet. It was around 15.00 and they'd been out all day. I suggested they stuck a pebble in their mouth to produce some saliva and they said they couldn't do it and neither could they chew chewing gum.

Imagine the hottest day of the year so far. Then imagine it a lot hotter still. So hot you can't open the bonnet of a Land Rover. So hot that bottles in the sun get as hot as a cup of tea, so hot that if you stick a spanner down for more than five minutes in the sun you can't pick it up again. Now imagine working all day in it as well.

I have a lot of respect for people that can put themselves through things like that just to give a greater understanding of their prophet.

So tell me, what have you done that's comparable? I remember once visiting them while they were eating. Their code/culture/religion meant they shared it with me.

Pashtunwali - Wikipedia

Numerous reasons. After WWI many didn't want a war again. And the bean counters are always trying to cut forces and save money...

We could have done something after Czechoslovakia but this meant a few more Spitfires were meant. Even then it was a phony war for most until later.
The holocaust didn't start till later. The war kicked off as we had seen Nazism with Kristelnacht. We had seen countries invaded. If you want answers there's a huge amount out there.

Wannsee Conference - Wikipedia

It was a pogrom initally. The concentration camps were initially work camps. Death camps came later. But hindsight is 20:20. We now know the full horror and that alone was justification.

What? We are talking about the 20th century. Look up when the telegraph was invented.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Wiring up the 'Victorian internet'
Generally wars aren't declared.

It means if you want peace you have large forces to deter war. "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

The Falklands kicked off as one of the reasons was our defence cuts. If we had had larger forces based there there would have been no war at all. Part of the reason for the garrison being there now.

justincase

Not being critical of the men and women in the Navy at all but they took them where ?Rescued or Aided their journey,,,,who knows...

As for a drugs bust ...must be so hard to get Heroin in the uk now because of it....Do you think the cannabis consumed in the uk would be travelling the indian ocean,,if you are in any town or city you could look out your window and probably see where it is being grown ...

Or your refusal to believe the British Government are anything else than jolly honest,thoroughly decent chaps who are the epitome of fairness...

And the consequences of not doing it are ?  It's not god they fear it's the buggers with the guns..
You mentioned opium farmers not wanting to do it because they are Muslim,,where in the Muslim faith is it ok to produce drugs then,unless getting up for prayers at 5am or whenever makes it ok...
Next you will be saying that the IRA and UVF were all god fearing catholics and protestants when in truth they believe in god no more than i do ..It's just total rubbish

Comparable to them or you...........If you came to mine if i was eating you would be offered it as well,,it's called common decency nothing else

And again what happens if they don't.....
"greater understanding of their prophet"   that's for a different thread me thinks



But what is the reality.....Protection of government maybe ?

So where was the justification if there were no Belsens,Auschwitz etc...Just wondering thats all

Oh yeah i can just imagine all the people in places like India,China and Africa all huddled round the telegraph office keeping up with German developments in 1939

Generally wars are declared,the British government have plenty of practice,they are referred to as conflicts,campaigns ,policing action etc when there is no declaration ie Vietnam

i know what it means Isn't that the point of Trident or are we talking about whether Britain wants to be part of the world police

Lots of differing opinions about why the falklands conflict happened but most of the people with the answers are dead now

I am in no way criticizing anybody who has served ,does serve or will serve in the Armed Forces..
Some good friends of mine did their time all around the world but a lot of them never considered the reasons they were there as just or right or anything to do with Britain but they tried to make the best of a bad situation...