DWP failures and the real life costs

Toko Black

I think you are deliberately confusing WRAG which is merely one of the two categories of ESA with a seperate thing from ESA.
If you are on ESA, you will either be placed in the WRAG(roup) or the Support Group.

Pacifico

Yes - for people already in receipt

richp007

So whose responsible then? Where does the blame lie? Who should face justice in this case?

Because Stephen Smith was denied it. They took everything from him, including his dignity in the end.

chopples

Stephen Smith was in receipt and had it taken away

Pacifico

Yes - and?  

I have never suggested at any point that people in receipt of welfare cannot lose it.

Toko Black

Since I wasn't arguing or stating otherwise, that's just a silly thing to say other than to mislead a casual reader into thinking I was in error.

That is completely factually incorrect.
It is well documented that ESA is an exception where you receive the base level ESA benefit once you lodge an Appeal, even if that is after being disallowed.
The change in October 2013 merely excluded claimants from going straight to appeal and claiming base level ESA once in appeal which was the case prior to that date.
Instead the claimant had to go through two reassessments and then a mandatory reconsideration before being able to appeal and claim base level ESA from that point till the appeal process finished.


Your lack of credulity does not effect or negate factual reality.
That fact that you are resorting to appealing to incredulity further underlines your lack of knowledge and understanding of ESA, the benefits process for the sick and disabled and the changed in October 2013.

No it isn't - the general frame work my be the same, but as mentioned before ESA is an exception when it comes to base level payments at the appeal phase.

chopples

My point was that prior to 2013 there was no mandatory reconsideration  so if esa was taken away it would be restarted once you decided to appeal.

Now you receive no esa whilst the reconsideration is ongoing

That was all

Cheers

Pacifico

Well I have already shown where you were wrong so I dont see much point in rehashing it



If you have never been in receipt of ESA and are turned down for ESA you are not going to be suddenly granted it if you appeal.

Toko Black

Again this is wrong, and if you believe it's a matter of just anyone randomly attempting to claim then pushing for an appeal to get free money ... then you don't know how sick pay and benefits work.
You can not just suddenly decide to claim on a whim - you must have supporting medical evidence from your doctor and most likely additional evidence from specialists, hospital reports, blood test/x-ray etc results. Not only that, the claimant and those acting on their behalf are making statements and declarations that are a criminal offence to knowingly be false.

For example:
If you became ill while working, you would claim statutory sick pay for up to 28 weeks, you are entitled to this with a valid sick note from your doctor.
If you then were still too ill to work, you could then make a claim for ESA, which replaced Incapacity Benefit ... and now has been superceeded by Universal Credit.
You are expected to provide medical evidence to support your claim, without any reasonable supporting medical evidence you won't get anywhere.

If you weren't working and you are of working age, you were entitled to JSA - job seekers allowance.
You would receive JSA as long as you can prove you are looking for work and attend interviews/Job Centre appointments etc. This has been replaced by Universal Credit (for new applicants)
If you are too ill to look for work/attend interviews etc, then you could have attempted to claim Incapacity Benefit/ESA which is essentially like JSA benefits without the requirement to be looking for work because you have reasonable supporting medical evidence to show you can't. It does/did include more money to cover additional expenses and needs of those with illness and disabilities.

I'm someone who:
- received statutory sick pay from work,
- Incapacity Benefit, Disability Living Allowance
- ESA in the work related Activity Group and now Support Group
- Personal Independance Payments.
- went through the reassessment phase, prior and after the inclusion of Mandatory Assessment.
- went through to Appeals Tribunal.
- had and still does have yearly Work Capability Assessments (I was meant to have one on at the start of the month, but when I and my support worker turned up they were over 2hrs behind and was eventually rescheduled, twice, before resulting in a change to a Home Assessment next week).

I've personally and directly experienced the changes to the benefits, application and appeals processes and rules over the last 12 years or so.

What's your personal experience with the processes/appeals/changes in Incapacity Benefit > ESA > UC
DLA > PIP
which cover the cases highlighted in the thread ?

Bl4ckGryph0n

Totally agreed, and that has been my point all along