Ballymurphy Inquest

Sonic67

Your usual biased opinion where everything is black and white, colour me shocked.
I poked holes in your idea they didn't even have white handkerchiefs.

NI didn't have peaceful marches. It was organised riots to either give the chance to kill soldiers or to have civilians killed by soldiers to alienate soldiers from the civilians.

You are in riot gear and a helmet. Your movement and hearing is impaired. Something happens your mate has fallen, you think you heard a bang. You might be next.

Don't read the next paragraph you will never hear the bullet that kills you, you have to decide right now your reaction.

And this is happening for hours. And the same tomorrow. Get it wrong once and people decades from now in nice safe environments sat on armchairs having all the answers will judge you for it.
So why was Blair giving the IRA indemnity? And why now? I can't remember what I ate last Monday. How can anyone remember what they did fifty years ago?
And it doesn't. You make a mistake, you are prosecuted. Hence why you had soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan frightened to open fire even when they legitimately could.
No. You want old blokes prosecuted for something that happened long ago and now they probably can't even figure out the TV remote.
And they were there to try and keep peace and so were targeted. You are against peace keepers? No different to me being in Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Cyprus.

BobbyMac

I'm happy to concede the pressures professional paid soldiers in NI where under, hopefully you'll also concede the same fear the unarmed populus encountered as well

I'm pretty sure a professional soldier will remember their past engagements (especially when it resulted in a kill)

To be a tad trite at least the soldiers got to enjoy their dotage unlike the civilians killed at their hands

Ballymurphy Victims shot by 1Para (the same regiment involved in Bloody Sunday)

Six civilians were killed on 9 August, these were:

Francis Quinn (19), shot while going to the aid of a wounded man.[12][13]Fr. Hugh Mullan (38), a Catholic priest, shot while going to the aid of a wounded man, reputedly while waving a white cloth to indicate his intentions.[12][14][15]Joan Connolly (50), shot as she stood opposite the army base. It has been claimed she was shot by three different soldiers, and that she might have survived had she been given medical attention sooner, but she lay injured in a field for several hours[12][16][17][15]Daniel Teggart (44), was shot fourteen times. Most of the bullets entered his back, allegedly as he lay injured on the ground.[12][18]Noel Phillips (20), shot as he stood opposite the army base.[12][19]Joseph Murphy (41), shot as he stood opposite the army base.[12] Murphy was subsequently taken into army custody and after his release, as he was dying in hospital, he claimed that he had been beaten and shot again while in custody. When his body was exhumed in October 2015, a second bullet was discovered in his body, which activists said corroborated his claim.[20]One civilian was shot on 10 August, and another four were shot on 11 August, these were:

Edward Doherty (28), shot while walking along Whiterock Road.[21]John Laverty (20) and Joseph Corr (43) were shot at separate points at the Top of the Whiterock Road. Laverty was shot twice, once in the back and once in the back of the leg. Corr was shot several times and died of his injuries on 27 August.[12][22]John McKerr (49), shot by unknown attackers while standing outside a Catholic church, died of his injuries on 20 August.[13][23][24]Paddy McCarthy (44) got into a confrontation with a group of soldiers. Family allege an empty gun was put in his mouth and the trigger pulled. McCarthy suffered a heart attack and died shortly afterwards.[25][26]The British Army may have started off as peace keepers, the likes of 1Para sure as hell didn't stay that way

Trollslayer

I have know a number of military/ex-military people and that matches up with what I have seen.
There was one former Marine in particular you would get on with.
I have also seen some with PTSD

Sonic67

And the armed terrorists? You want to talk about "fear" my barracks was targeted twice. Once with bombs being planted, the second time it was mortared.
And I'm pretty sure a terrorist will remember their past engagements. Why aren't they also being arrested?
And to be a tad trite at least the terrorists got to enjoy their dotage unlike the civilians killed at their hands.

You want to try someone, do it at the time. Not literally decades later.
Want a list of terrorist atrocities? Even your family wasn't safe.

Killings of Nick Spanos and Stephen Melrose - Wikipedia

Nick Spanos and Stephen Melrose were Australian tourists shot dead in Roermond, the Netherlands by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA, PIRA) on 27 May 1990, which claimed to have mistaken them for off-duty British soldiers.[1] The attack was part of an IRA campaign in Continental Europe.

British military personnel had been stationed in West Germany since the end of the Second World War. The Provisional IRA had been carrying out attacks in mainland Europe since 1979. Between 1988 and 1990 it intensified its operations there. On 1 May 1988, three members of the Royal Air Force (RAF) were killed in two IRA attacks in the Netherlands. One of the attacks took place in Roermond.[2] On 12 August, Richard Michael Heakin, a British sergeant-major was shot dead at Ostend, Belgium.[3][4] In June 1989, a British base in Osnabrück was bombed[5] and the following month a British soldier was killed by an IRA booby trap bomb in Hanover.[6]

Cars owned by British military personnel in Germany had distinctive number plates, which helped the IRA identify targets.[7][8] In August 1988, following the killing of the three RAF members, they were replaced with standard British number plates.[9][10] Critics of the move warned that British tourists would be at risk as their cars would be indistinguishable from soldiers' cars.[9]

On 7 September 1989 German civilian Heidi Hazell, the wife of a British soldier, was shot dead as she sat in a car outside a British Army married quarter in Unna.[6] The car had British number plates.[11] The IRA expressed regret for the death and claimed she had been shot "in the belief that she was a member of the British army garrison at Dortmund".[11][12]

On 28 October 1989, IRA members opened fire on the car[6][13] of RAF corporal Mick Islania. The corporal had just returned to the car from a petrol station snack bar[14] in Wildenrath. Also in the car were his wife Smita and their six-month-old daughter Nivruti.[13] Corporal Islania was hit by multiple rounds and died instantly; his daughter was killed by a single shot to the head. Smita Islania suffered shock.[13] The IRA expressed regret for the child's death and claimed its members did not know she was in the car.[15]


Nope. Every day, every soldier, every experience, is different. Decades on some are still living with it.

People don't choose to kill others. Join the army and say, "you want to kill" you won't be allowed in. Would you like to kill someone? Why do you think anyone else would? Even if it's justified it leads to guilt, stress, drinking, troubled relationships, nightmares, and a lot more.

BobbyMac

To carry on from the other week's exchange on the JC thread (and to stop derailing it), some info on the inquest into the massacre which occurred before Bloody Sunday

Ballymurphy massacre - Wikipedia

Some gruesome testimony from Para 2 member Harry Gow at the inquest
Ballymurphy soldiers competed for kills to win cash prize, inquest hears

Sonic67

Black humour.

A few years ago my regiment were serving abroad and one guy died on adventure training in an accident.

The others present awarded the PTI responsible for the training the prize of getting a confirmed kill while on tour.

BobbyMac

More japes from the British Army

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/05/11/news/british-soldiers-used-shot-catholic-man-s-skull-as-ashtray-1617500

Sonic67

While IRA terrorists sit at home relaxed, ageing British soldiers live in trepidation

Whilst the IRA have admitted that they fired directly at the Army during this violent day, none of their members are being sought.

phil t

Statistics of Deaths in the Troubles in Ireland

Seems more civilians were killed by "others" than by the British Army.

For complete fairness, there will be inquests into these too?

BobbyMac

Whatabouterry ain’t a good look

I’d have no issue with murderers facing justice be they British Army, Loyalists or Republicans

Any British Soldier killing combatants should have nothing to fear, it was a war after all

Those killing innocents and engaging in the sort of ghoulish acts as per their own testimony above deserve all they get, no matter what age they are

Justice doesn’t have a time limit