Ballymurphy Inquest

Pacifico

Unfortunately not as I showed earlier.

BobbyMac

At the end of the day, complaining about a system designed to protect the British Army from being convicted from illegal activites including maiming and murdering civilians which resulted in only 4 convictions with 5 year terms then pardoned via Royal Perogative with the criminal then welcomed back into the army with open hands, makes a mockery of justice which judges all men/woman equal in the eyes of the law (not just your own side)

Is the worry that once the stones are unturned, the actual nature of what was going on in NI would result in many more possible prosecutions?

Are only certain UK citizens allowed justice?

Pacifico

Which as I said at the start of the thread is the problem. Currently all men are not equal as it is only ex members of the forces being prosecuted for alleged crimes from that era. The IRA had a free pass.

Dony

But that isn't true. The IRA / UVF / INLA / LVF / Red Hand Commando's etc were investigated at the time of their crimes and if enough evidence was available they were charged and sentenced. I'm not suggesting for one minute that everyone was caught and sentenced (I see the guy who murdered my best mate frequently and he was never tried for his crime), but those who were, got punished.
Why do you and others keep dismissing this fact as if it didn't happen?

As mentioned earlier, there's only a fraction of investigations taking place in relation to the number of crimes, and this doesn't even take into consideration the many claims of collusion by the Security forces of the time with Loyalist paramilitaries, the most well known being the Glenanne Gang who killed over 120 Catholics.

At the end of the day this is a simple question. Do you think members of the armed forces should be immune from prosecution for committing crimes outside of the law or do you think the law should be applied to everyone?

Pacifico

Yes - but as I showed previously it is not. The IRA have had a free pass and the ONLY people being investigated and charged are members of the Security Forces.

Dony

Because they weren't investigated before, Paramilitaries were,  that's the point.


(BTW there were more than just the IRA killing people).

Pacifico

You are missing the point. There are IRA members walking around today with enough evidence against them for a court case to be started, but that is not happening.

Now if you want the law to be applied to everyone then those members of the IRA should not be given a free pass whilst members of the security forces are being prosecuted.

Thats if you want the law to be applied equally to everyone.

Sonic67

SNIP Witch hunt.

Dony

I'm not that naive that I think everyone who acted unlawfully during the Troubles will be caught and tried for whatever they did. There will be IRA members who'll 'get away with it', just like there'll be loyalists who will never see the inside of a courtroom, or every soldier who 'lost control' for that matter.
I'm also not naive enough to think that Soldier F was the only soldier who acted unlawfully on Bloody Sunday. I predict the same for Ballymurphy, I'll be very surprised if more than 1 soldier will face prosecution.   

But what you've basically been saying is the IRA are getting off scot free, whilst soldiers are being persecuted. But who was it who filled the prison ships, Long Kesh, Magiligan, Crumlin Road etc?

I've stated already in this thread that I'm not bothered if the perpetrator never spends a night in prison (and that goes for everyone from all sides), but I would like to see them in court if the evidence is there.

Sonic67

Former Paratrooper Henry Gow told the coroner's court how a colleague recovered part of the skull of another man killed in the area, Henry Thornton, and used it as an ashtray.

How about the guy was a fantasist? More *******s from you?

Nobody took issue with some para's acquiring a severed head, removing all of the skin, brains, flesh, eyes and hair and putting the resulting skull on the table on the NAAFI table to use as an ashtray? It's civvies working in NAAFI's, wouldn't they say something? The cleaners? The Superiors? Visiting officers? Civil servants?

How about it being a war crime? And everyone was happy to be complicit in it?

Customary IHL -  Rule 113. Treatment of the Dead

Seriously, do you honestly believe this ****?

Did the family not notice that the head was missing when identifying the body? Or the coroner or the investigation team for that matter? I'm sure the coroner would have noticed a missing head.

                                                                               

A "grizzly" episode? Presumably a bear was involved. Or perhaps they meant grisly. Wonderful journalism.

Henry Gow

He's a bit of a fibber.

https://www.tbtas.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Outcome-Posting-Gow.pdf

                                                                               

Henry Gow wrote an autobiography "Killing Zone" under the name "Harry McCallion" and published in 1995.

I was the original natural born killer

He claims to be ex-SAS, Falklands, South African Special Forces and RUC!

Went to assassinate Mugabe too. Of course he did.

Liverpool lawyer: My part in Robert Mugabe assassination plot

Sure it wasn't just this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OOTB-Skull-Ashtray-Polyresin-Multi-Colour/dp/B00STWBUY6/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=skull ashtray&qid=1557863505&s=gateway&sr=8-5

Ballymurphy soldiers 'out of control'

Last week, the inquest heard claims that paratroopers had used a man's skull as an ashtray and that soldiers held a sweepstake on who would kill a gunman first.

They had featured in the book Killing Zone, written by a former fellow soldier, the barrister Henry Gow.

As he was about to leave the court, M597 told the families of the Ballymurphy victims that the claims were false.

"I am truly sorry for any part I played in this and I would like you to leave here not believing what [Henry] Gow told you last week, because it's not true," he said.

"I'd hate for you guys to go through the rest of your life thinking that - it's just not true."

M597 had earlier described being handed the book while working in the Middle East, reading it and saying to himself: "This is absolute garbage."

To be fair, I have a ribcage from an Iraqi I use as a glockenspiel.