can a worn DMF cause a clutch to slip ?

cosmicma

something i'm unfamiliar with

took my car in to have the clutch changed and once the gearbox was off the it appears there is some play in the DMF and the clutch looks in good order as does the pressure plate and thrust bearing

looking at the new friction plate and comparing it to the one removed from my car there is almost no sign of wear compared to the new one

there is no contamination on anything or hot spots

the mechanic is saying he thinks it's the DMF causing the clutch to slip but i'm not sure i can't see how it would cause clutch slip
the clutch is smooth in operation with no juddering or odd vibrations which i would expect from a worn DMF
it just slips as soon has you hit 2000 rpm in more or less any gear

has anybody come across a worn DMF making the clutch slip ? because iv'e never heard of it and can't really find anything to back up his diagnosis
i'm not saying the mechanic is wrong he's very experienced when it comes to Hondas it's all that he repairs but i don't want to spend £400 on a new DMF to find i didn't need it

the DMF in the car was new 30,000 miles ago along with the clutch etc.

my thoughts is regardless of how worn the DMF is i cant see how it would cause clutch slip
if the pressure plate is in good order ( which it is ) it would be down to clamping pressure
the bit i don't know is how exactly the DMF internals work
i know there are damping springs but once they are under tension it should lock the inner and outer parts of of the flywheel together meaning there is no way it could spin 360 degrees which is the only way i could see it causing clutch slip or clutch slip symptoms

i might of got the way the DNF works completely wrong and it can cause the clutch to slip but i can't see how

The Dreamer

A quick Google took me to a few Honda owner sites and it seems an out of limits DMF can cause slippage.

So if there's no wear showing on your original clutch, it may well be the DMF (according to the owner sites, I'm making no guarantees here)!

Has the mechanic actually changed your clutch then? As doing both will be expensive - although it seems it is recommended to change the clutch if the DMF is being replaced, as apparently a new DMF can 'rip apart' a clutch that is getting old anyway - just what I've read - I don't know the mechanic of how a DMF works.

cosmicma

thanks for taking the time to reply

after a lot of googling i have come to the conclusion the the DMF might be just out of tolerance with the rotational free play but is well within tolerance where bearing play is concerned and looks visually to be in good order

what i do know is the clamping pressure on these 2.2 civics is right on the edge and is a well known issue causing the clutch to slip prematurely
in my case the clutch and DMF was replaced 30,000 miles ago or 4 years ago whichever way you look at it

the sensible thing to do is have clutch and DMF replaced while the gearbox is off but that more or less doubles the bill and considering the DMF has only done 30,000 miles i need to be sure

the mechanic recommended just changing the DMF as the clutch ls in very good order, he's confident it will cure the clutch slip issue
myself i'm not so sure
the consolation is if it doesn't cure the clutch slip he will fit a new clutch free of labour charges but then i'm nearly 400 quid lighter and will never be sure if just changing the clutch in the first place would have been enough

DOBLY

30,000 is no mileage at all for either a clutch or its' associated dual mass flywheel - there is something seriously wrong with the set-up.
I would be taking it to a Honda garage or independent Honda specialist as they would see more of these than the average mechanic, and therefore have more experience with this particular issue in this particular car.

cosmicma

the car is with an independent Honda specialist it's the same garage that fitted it 30,000 miles ago and i trust the indi more than any honda dealership

Honda never acknowledged there was a problem with the 2.2 diesel civic clutches and just replaced them under warranty
quite a number replaced under warranty never made it to 30,000 miles from new

car-man

I've never known a DMF to cause the clutch to slip.
I had a Peugeot 407 with 40,000 miles on the clock when the DMF started to fail...heavy vibration through the passenger's floor and a loud rattle on tickover....the DMF was badly worn on the torsion springs and on a vertical basis.
I replaced the whole lot, clutch and DMF.
The clutch was hardly worn and didn't show any sign of clutch slip.
The Honda 2.2 engined cars are well known in the trade for having weak clutches and for clutch slip.
Personally I can't see how the DMF can cause clutch slip as pressure would need to be applied to the pressure plate to weaken the spring tension that the clutch relies on for traction....the DMF wouldn't do that.
There is always a case for replacing the whole kit to save any possible problem in the future.
Obviously I don't know which manufacturer's DMF and Clutch has been fitted, but I would recommend an LUK clutch and flywheel....LUK are the best from my experience.
If there is minimal torsion wear and slight vertical movement then you may be fine to re-use the DMF.

cosmicma

thanks for replying

the clutch and DMF fiitted 30,000 miles ago was the LUK 325 clutch kit and LUK DMF
there is no vibration or rattles whatsoever coming from the DMF and no vibration through the peddle
the car drives smoothly the gear changes are smooth it goes into every gear with no issue or crunching it's when the revs rise above 2000rpm when driving the clutch slips and even then there's no drama it just doesn't accelerate like it should

i agree with you i can't see any way that a DMF knackered or not can make the clutch slip
i'm asking because i might be wrong and it would be an expensive mistake if it could

un1eash

Have they checked the clutch pedal position, when I looked into a 2.2 civic years ago I was put off by all the clutch problems I read and most mention the poor self adjusting clutch and pedal adjustment.

cosmicma

the diy pedal adjustment is more of a botch which some have done to lift the biting point
the civics had a habit of having the biting point about an inch or so from the floor and in order to lift the biting point some would adjust the bar on the clutch pedal
the biting point on my car is ok and adjusting the rod can lead to more problems if adjusted too far

KyleS1

Has it been remapped?
I remapped a Golf which was practically new and the map causes clutch slippage but only when booting it from around 2000rpm or less.