"Travel is allowed via any permitted route"

273K

Just wanted to double check what this phrase means.

1. I want to travel from Liverpool to London, via Manchester. Can I do this on a Liverpool-London ticket, even tho there's a direct Lpl-Ldn train?

2. I'm meeting up with a friend in Manchester and we're travelling to London together; do I have to stay within the station or can I exit, meet up then go back and get a train later on?

3. Out of interest, what's stopping me travelling Liverpool-London, via, say... Newcastle??

wongataa

I would ask what the permitted routes are and if you can travel via Manchester. If changing trains at a station you should be able to leave the station and return later.  All that matters is that the tickets you have are valid for the trains you use.

I think you can find the UK railways routing guides online if you search and want to find out yourself.

That won't be a permitted route.

273K

Thanks for the reply.
I now appreciate the subtle difference between "any route permitted [by us]" and "any route [is] permitted"!

They seem to make it quite difficult to check this properly, I've just had to find and search a 2200 page pdf for the permitted routes btw Liverpool and London. They are:
BV GC CH BJ GC CH EJ CH RJ RG EV ME EB ME GC ME RB RG NO NC EJ NR NC EJ RV RG

Can I find anywhere what these letters mean? Can I heck!

Anyway, it says here:
"If you are planning a journey we would strongly advise you to make use of
the Journey Planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk. Any ticket indicated for use in
conjunction with a particular journey when using the Journey Planner will
automatically be valid for the route and service indicated."

and doing the search suggests that it's NOT permitted to go Liv-Ldn via Mcr!

LV426

(1)  Permitted routes are, as you have worked out, often something of a "dark art".  The easiest thing to do is to do an enquiry at Nationalrail.co.uk .  If you have a specific "via" point then add that, and use the fare and itinerary thus offered.  Note that you can **always** travel (using an "Any Permitted" ticket) on a through train between your two places regardless of its route, and regardless of what the maps say a permitted route is.

(2)  A break of journey occurs when you exit the station.  Whether you can do so depends on the T&C for the specific ticket type you are using.  For some it's no; for some, it's only on the return trip; for some it's yes.  The cheapest fares ("advance") are highly restricted; you MUST travel on the exact train chosen.

(3)  Unless there were a through train (unlikely) then it's most probably not a permitted route.  I guess you've worked that out, too.

273K

Thanks for the reply, seems like I'm out of luck then. I read something about permitted routes being any "reasonable" route between to destinations, I would have thought Lpl-Mcr-Lon was pretty reasonable? Obviously not...
Can't say I'm surprised tho, an anytime return for that journey costs £330! Thieves...

Bl4ckGryph0n

Oh come on. Why would it be reasonable to take a multi city route where the train not normally passes through. It is not reasonable to travel east first to another main city on a trainline provided by someone else, to then go south.

Why brand them as thieves?

273K

Perhaps because other multi city routes are deemed reasonable? Apparently I can travel Liverpool, Birmingham, Reading, London. Or via Coventry or Shrewsbury, both of which are similar distance out of the way. Or via Warrington, which is half way to Manchester.

Was referring to charging over £300 for a straightforward peak time Lpl-London rtn (not via Mcr). Makes them bandits in my book.

LV426

There is, of course, nothing to stop you buying a ticket Liverpool  > Manchester, and another Manchester > London.  Depending on the time of day, off-peak fares might apply to some or all of your travel.

273K

Yeh, did look into this, advance singes on specific trains would be the cheapest option, but I need open tickets as don't know exactly when we're coming back.

Lpl-Mcr off pk single = £12.50
Mcr-Ldn off-pk single  = £83
Ldn-Lpl off pk single = £83
Total £178.50

vs.
Lpl-Ldn off pk rtn = £83

Even going out on an advance singles Lpl-Mcr & Mcr-Ldn for still looking at about £40 more expensive.

Upshot is we'll travel separately and meet at Euston. Or might just chance it on the open rtn and try to charm/blag the inspectors in Mcr! (Apparently via Mcr used to be a permitted route until a couple of yrs ago so I could plead ignorance)

LV426

If you made your return trip via MCR also -

Liv - Man OPR  1520
Man - Lon OPR   8390
= £99.10