Sony FDR-AX53 + LANC controller?

andjarnic

Hi all,

I am starting to do some sports videography and from a bit of research within my price range, the Sony AX53 comes across as the best affordable 4K camera with a clean HDMI output signal. I am using the Atomos Ninja Inferno to record.

Anyway, the one thing I need is a good quality zoom controller. It appears these Sony multiports dont support LANC plugs, and from what I have read, even the LANC to Multiport adaptor does not work with the likes of the AX53. Is this really true? Or does Sony just say this to avoid any need to support LANC in their cameras?

It seems to me an adaptor that can convert LANC to their Sony Multiport format should allow any LANC controller to work with it. I was looking at the Libec controller, as well as a Manfroto one.

The only controller that Sony says works with it is their cheap $40 Sony controller that looks flimsy at best and the zoom toggle does not look nearly as good as those from Libec, Varizoom, etc.

Has anyone been able to try a LANC to Multiport adaptor on the AX53 and/or anything else that works with it?

12harry

Sorry for the delay- just read yr Posting....
Sony Canon developed LANC as I understand; but then Sony went for their own for Consumer camcorders...my own CX410 ( no-longer available),  has a multi-port that support the wired-remote with a short (!) non-curly lead. It has no batteries and can switch ON-OFF Take still/moving-photos and control zoom . It cannot adjust focus....also, the zoom is either fast.slow.... =nice.

This remote came only with the sony tripod- a rather flimsy affair with added centre-column . . . for the price I would think they should provide one extra section( it's too short for serious work, IMHO) ...and maybe increase the diameter of the bottom-section . . . it really doesn't inspire confidence.  The snag is that Sony would then double the price; which for a consumer camcorder would be silly enough to reduce Sales to near-zero.... I don't imagine many would buy the Tripod Remote.

Sadly I don't think Non-Sony alternatives exist. - The standard 2.5mm LANC plug won't fit and as there are no adaptors, maybe there is a "features" issue too. However, it could be simply price - as Manfrotto LANCS are pretty pricey . . . If a camcorder is Pro @ £5,000, then £250 for the LANC looks OK.

However, for the AX53, the price-point is really silly..... as Manfrotto would have to provide an adaptor . . . ( Although if this came with a 1m5 curly-cord, that might change things...)...
You wrote  "....looked at the Sony wired-remote and found it Flimsy..." - Mine is the Tripod's pan-handle and flimsy it isn't . . . . but the cable is too short; so I rarely use it.... although it was for me, a Featured-Reason for buying the CX410....( tripod remote unseen ).

Have you now resolved the "Remote Issue"? -
Do you have the Option of using a Smartphone, perhaps?

Cheers.

andjarnic

Thanks for the reply. So.. this is really stupid actually that there isnt an adapter that can convert their proprietary format to LANC. I mean, I am no expert..but isnt it just electrical signals? At any rate, my solution for now is to buy a clone remote $30 (instead of the $50 from sony) that indicates it works with AX33/53/100, and I found a 27 foot extension cable for that remote. I am hoping this works out. Their remote, however, is pathetic. I havent gotten it yet, but it looks plasticy, and the zoom button doesnt look like it will work well for the sort of video work I am doing.

They do have the wifi/phone app setup.. but it is way too slow and more so, cumbersome when I will need to be using zoom possibly quite often while using my other hand to pan/tilt the elevated camera, while staring at a 7" monitor. I cant be looking down at my phone to see if my finger is touching the right on screen button.. and you know as well as I how easy it is to miss buttons on a screen especially if you are not looking at it.

As phones overtake camcorders for day to day video, I do see the market shrinking. There are, however, niche markets like the video work I am doing that need a camcorder. The AX100 would actually work.. but at $1600 or more, and 3  years old, it is a bit more than a hobbyist old man like myself wanted to spend, and I am more worried that a refresh may be coming soon anyway.

Honestly, if the GH5 had a workable auto focus system (which I read it is coming later this year), I would have spent the $2K on that camera, the $600 on a Metabones adaptor, and a few hundred more on a lens with autofocus capabilities. I can use that camera for other purposes, where as the AX53 is going to be strictly for recording games or action stuff.

I have to believe I am at the cutting edge with what I am trying to do here. I have seen lots of elevated rigs but none shooting 4K and recording in DNxHR like I am trying to do. Thus far other responses from other forums indicate I am way overkill and HD is just fine for what I am trying to do. Thus, I could have opted for a much cheaper camcorder with LANC, and cheaper HD monitor that doesnt record.. and just record on camera. However, I am a nut for high quality stuff, and my thinking is.. in the not too distant future, having 4K footage to pull from at DNxHR SQ quality vs AVCHD, will result in much much better quality 4K highlight reels. I am paying for it now in the cost of storage and gear to do so, but I believe it should result in future proofing for many years. While 8K cameras (namely RED) seem to be used by the average youtube vlogger today (still do not understand how they afford $100K  in gear), and despite that nobody is watching 8K content and wont be for years.. I dont see 8K being wide spread for at least 5 to 6 years or more. 4K is just really taking off this year in terms of TVs, we dont even have near affordable 4K projectors yet, and the content is still very little compared to HD. I suspect around 2019 or so 4K content will catch up to HD.. but even so.. when you look at the number of people with fast enough internet to stream 4K, it is tiny at this point, and it isnt going to get much better in the next year.. so I still dont think 4K is going to be as big as HD for a couple more years.  My point being.. I am again hoping I am way ahead of the curve with shooting not only 4K, but at a high quality codec for editing with and avoiding the double compression (triple when you factor in youtube/vimeo/etc recompressing to their own streaming format when uploaded) that current in camera solutions use.

12harry

All well-reasoned, . . . . . I looked at AX range a while ago and I keep seeing that the BOSS stab. is disabled in 4K-mode . . . perhaps it reverts to normal stab...dunno.   Can you tell what is going-on?

If you don't need 4K, then a "better" HD camcorder  is probably a better purchase . . . as the Pro's move up, we can pick-up good gear at decent prices.
I don't know, but suspect the somewhat restricted Zoom range of 4K camcorders means that the footage will be almost HD by the time it's Zoomed-In during the Edit . . . which rather destroys the whole point of 4K.

The Pana GH-series are known for quality images, but a decent zoom is a pricey addition and I read somewhere the camera menu is not that user-friendly when something needs changing during a shoot.
I am amazed by the quality my CX410 provides from a sensor that's smaller than a match-head and with a relatively poor iris arrangement. I keep meaning to take some shallow DoF shots using the NEX5 with a 50mm f/1.8 Nikor ( ex-SLR ), which I can attach along with a variable ND filter . . . but somehow I just never seem to have it with me. That's laziness; which rather negates any probability that filming in 4K will actually improve my films.
There are only TWO reasons for sticking with HD...IMHO:
- 1) that's all modern Club projectors will handle -and-
- 2) it suits existing PC Editing Software.
So, what I want is a 20x (or 30x zoom) HD camcorder with built-in ND filters . . . but NOT the size/weight of a Z5 - and it must take SD type memory cards. I'm still looking . . . the pricey Canon G40 (?) is v.close, but a new-model must be out soon...  &  with ND filters? The 8-blade Iris indicates they are serious about image quality IMHO.

Cheers.

andjarnic

Hmm.. my thought on the camera is this.. set it up to output the best HDMI (or SDI) output, and record using Atomos.   The menu and use of Atomos is so nice and easy. As long as the camera can retain settings, that should be it. If I were to get the GH5, Id have to find info on the VLOG setting to get filmic/flat look out of it, but otherwise, I would look to let the Atomos handle the recording. Even if it can record 4K60 at 400mbps, I still like the idea of using SSD over SD cards and recording externally and the bigger monitor, tools, etc that Atomos provides are easier to work with than the screen on the camera. Now, I read that the Black MAgic Ursa Mini (and pro) monitors are good size and very easy to use, and given that if I were to ever move to that camera it records 12bit raw internally.. I wouldnt use the Atomos for that. For my particular sports video work though.. it would make no sense to move to anything else... at least from what I can tell the size, quality, etc that this AX53 puts out is plenty good, especially that I can record the Uncompressed HDMI into DNxHR for much higher quality (and a lot more storage) than the camera can itself.

I find that the 20x optical is good enough for the position where the camera will be and the wide bit of the field I need to cover. Even zooming in on a corner kick has plenty of zoom in it to reach the 60 or so yards away it is at 20x.

I ended up just buying an ND filter from Hoya and UV filter from B W for the AX53.. mostly to shoot better in sun and protect the lens (and ND filter). I got an ND8 (3 stops?) so I think that should be good enough.

12harry

20x is OK if it's good - many camcorders use "extended zoom" which fiddles the sensor-setting....they claim it doesn't affect Quality . . . but I'm not convinced, otherwise we'd be given even shorter optical Zooms to save weight and manufacturing costs ( while giving us a greater aperture at the longest ( shorter), settings).
Where I found issues with the AX series....was the BOSS stabaliser appears to be inoperable in "4k-mode"  - which seems rather stupid . . . but presumably there is some alternative going-on....?

BTW I have taken some HD movies using the non-stab Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 ( manually set to f/2.8 ) using my Stills camera NEX5 in movie-mode. The CU and shallow DoF are very good - although my first efforts were hand-held, later-on I will ty to use the tripod or a Figg-Rig ( but It's raining today.... and the PC has been freezing / at the Shop.... so filming seemed a bit pointless, as I can't even view them as I would prefer.).

Whilst the Canon G40 has many "Movie" good-features, I'm now tempted by the Panasonic VX990 ( with EVF ) - - - OR - - - - the Pana FZ2000 which appears to lengthen the minimum Zoom to about 35mm (equiv) . . . it's an odd compromise but has dual SD-slots and 4 built-in ND filters (up to 64x for movie-modes.). but it is more expensive than the VX990 which is a "proper Camcorder"   . . .  seems Pana has at least two Design-Teams on cameras..... very ODD.

andjarnic

Yah..I never use anything past optical zoom. On a 4K camera, the new digital zoom uses the 4K sensor to zoom in at 1080P (so it does a good job).. but.. at 4K.. digital zoom interopolates pixels and as you said.. gets distorted a bit. Definitely never want to record digital zoom. Rather zoom in post.. much better software options to try to keep the image clean in post than on the camera.

I believe the normal Stab works on 4K. After all, the lens is on a gimbal inside the body.. so there is absolutely some stabilization going on. I believe, like digital zoom, when you are using 1080P.. it uses the 4K sensor   the stabilization stuff to give you insanely good full HD stabilization which you lose when using 4K.. so you get just the gimbal at 4K. Still, I was able to pan and tilt and not see any noticeable jarring movement. So for me, its good enough.

I ordered the ND8 filter and UV filter (good quality on both.. like $65 for UV and $89 for ND8) for my AX53 to protect the ND8 and internal lens, and hopefully work well in sunny situations without making it too dark.

Only thing I cant find is a dummy battery for the AX53. Bugging me.. I got a nice dual battery VMount setup (only one battery right now..but buying a few more in a few months). Nice Wooden Camera DBOX distribution coming. I want to run a LEMO to the AX53 (21 feet away), but I need a dummy battery to slot in to the camera, and sadly nothing. Only choice now is to potentially cut the DC end off the AC plug, and wire it to an open ended LEMO connector and use that. It would work.. but I wanted the snap in dummy battery vs a push in plug.

andjarnic

Hey, just an update for anyone that may find this thread with similar issues.

I ended up having to buy the Sony remote after all because the cheap one I got had a hard wired cable, which made it impossible to use the extension cord I bought. The Sony remote has a removable plug, so the extension I got plugs in to it.  It does the job, though both ends are the same and if you plug one end of the extension cord in (white end) in the camera (or remote..cant remember which end now), only part of the functions work. Kind of a pain when you have your camera 21 feet up to have to bring it all down, reverse the cable, etc. I have a solution soon that should resolve it.

That solution is I bought a Wooden Camera DBOX (not cheap.. but awesome quality and flexibility). At the time of my purchase, my intent was to power my Sony AX53 using a LEMO plug connected to the DBOX (which had a VMOUNT battery attached to it) to power both my camera (21 feet up) AND the Atomos Ninja monitor/recorder. Problem has been that I can not find a dummy battery for the Sony AX53. So the only option is to use the DC input (which is 8.4v regulated). To my great surprise, Wooden Camera builds custom cables to go with their hardware. Win win. They are not cheap, but then again their gear is used by the pros for big movie cameras, and the quality is nothing less than superb. So, I am finally having 2 custom cables built. One is a LEMO to LEMO 20' cable, the other is a 2' LEMO to (again my surprise) Sony AX53 DC IN plug with 8.4v regulator built in.

As I also record on a tripod when in the school stadiums, I wanted a short cable to power the camera with hence why I am having 2 cables made.. so that I can use the 2' cable when on the tripod, but add the 20' cable when using the HiPod rig.

Hope that helps. Wish I could solve the LANC -> Sony AX53 remote issue.. would love to get a good varizoom with focus and zoom controls to work! Especially since I dont record in camera.

12harry

HNY - and thanks for the update.   Tried SEARCH for Wooden C's and got a load of Toys from Az ( Doh!), - but further-on: They supply Pro-priced plates, brackets, follow-focus and such like. Good to read someone does extremely-long cables . . . just remember to wrap some round a sturdy pillar / tree so a fool tripping-over doesn't tear the electronics out of that camcorder.
Always surprises me how much a plate with holes costs.... but while I can make one for a pound; it takes research to fathom where the holes need to be. I repaired a table-dolly recently where the tripod-bush (screw) was so badly made it fell apart before trial-filming ( Er, not my gear involved)....the screw-replacement has been in-use (so I hear), for some months.... all down to a little care, Epoxy and some matt-black paint.
/
BTW, That power adaptor probably means you'll run out of Memory first... or did I understand you bought the external recorder, too?

....Nevertheless....

How are the pictures from the AX53? - that's what we need to know...

Cheers.

andjarnic

Here you got  (Wooden Camera Professional Accessories). Great stuff. Yes pro level.. and expensive. But built to last and high standards.

The Hipod has velcro and some clips to run the cable alongside the poll up the distance so it doesnt fly freely in the wind, etc. At the top, it has a retention carabiner  clip that you put the cables through, and a way to add some extra so as you rotate the camera plate left/right and up/down, it doesnt pull on the sockets of the camera. In my case, with my new custom power cable, I will have 3 plugs pushed in to the camera.. HDMI output, DC power in, and remote. I found some rugged cable wrap material and wrap all of it in the wrap so it appears as one thicker wrapped cable and is easier to deal with. Just got that stuff so havent put it in action yet, but seen a competitor product that does the same thing.

Yes, I bought the Atomos Shogun external monitor/recorder. Records to a 1 TB SSD drive in DNxHR SQ format. About 325GB for the 1.3 hours of a soccer game.

With the one battery I have (Core SWX SWXPL90SK1) I can record for about 3 hours or so on the monitor.. but that was only powering the monitor. I will report back once I have the power cable and it is all working to let you know the amount of time for the camera and monitor. I did buy the T plate for vmount from SWX so I just need to buy a 2nd battery to make sure I have enough on those rare times I may need more than 2 to 3 hours of record time.

As for quality. its pretty good. Fast movement blurs a bit, but that is not unexpected. Soccer is an interesting sport to record because of how fast the ball moves around the field at times. I am still learning.. it is hard sometimes not to watch the game and focus on moving the camera.. and I still find that I dont keep the ball centered well enough so sometimes the play is near the top of the screen instead of centered.. at least vertically. I have yet to play anything back on a 4K monitor as my setup is 1080P monitors.