Panasonic HC-VXF1 Camcorder: HD Picture Resolution:

12harry

Hi Terfyn.... My Sony CX410 has a similar shutter.... but after suggestions here/elsewhere I've fitted a plain filter.  My regular case holds only the camcorder - but I have a carry-bag for other stuff including reflector(s), spare battery, Memory, a Sony Tripod (which take the wired-remote) and other stuff that falls to the bottom. I've heard of folks having "grit" in the leaves of these shutters, but ( with the protection filter), hope never to suffer it myself.
Of course no-one wants to be clumsy with filter threads - but it happens.

However, I think you are attempting to say there isn't room inside the Camcorder Body itself (?)  . . . . hence my suggestion for an electronic ND solution. The top-end Sony consumer camcorder has ND filters and boasts the ease of achieving shallow DoF - but I have pointed out that sometimes shallow DoF is not ideal - hence naming the Deep/Shallow switchery.  This would be far better IMHO,  than adding glass ND filters whether internal or external...
Since this would not be mechanical, no rearranging of the optical path is needed.... no size increase ( but Users should still screw-in a protection filter ).

Cheers.

M Stewart

I know this isn't a current thread, but it's quite relevant to my current interest in buying a used Panasonic HC-VXF1.  
Earlier today I visited my local Currys PC World, and there were 4K TVs everywhere, as well as an 8K which claimed even higher resolution. (Mine is a 6 year old HD.)  
What was very obvious was the high colour saturation used in the demos and whilst impressive at first, I thought it soon became tiring, and not that natural.  At least I was able to handle a range of the latest camcorders without setting off the alarm system.

I'm wondering if the views set out by the OP still stand, or whether he's now found a way round the apparent drop in HD quality as compared to an earlier HD camera.  Currently I'm trying to video butterflies, and a decent viewfinder is important as butterflies definitely prefer coming out when it's sunny, and I've struggled with my HC-V510 trying to see what's on its LCD screen.

Terfyn

Fairly common practice is to set the TVs Viewing Mode to "Dynamic" which gives an enhanced picture and looks good in the shop. I was advised with my recent purchase to switch the picture to "Normal" As soon as possible as the Dynamic setting does not do the TV much good over a length of time.

If you can get your hands on a VXF1 then give it a try. You can replay the recorded images through the HDMI port into a shop TV to see if you can spot any degradation.

HenryPorter

I too have remained curious about the issue raised by the OP as I am interested in purchasing this 4k camcorder.

Did the HD comparison issue ever get answered/resolved.

This thread had a knack of very quickly going 'off-topic'.

johnkm

Apologies for not giving the final outcome with my VXF1 resolution, which is as follows:

Panasonic finally admitted that their 'on the fly' downscaling from 4K to HD was not 'perfect', which rather explains my test results, but doesn't explain why they were highlighting all these even higher quality modes that just ran through the memory card quicker with no increase in quality!
The final outcome was that they agreed to take the camcorder back and refund me in full, so I didn't have to force the issue via the Sale of Goods legislation (‘not as described’). This left me with being much more careful in checking out my next choice, which had to be from a local retailer, who had one in stock so I could make test recordings before going any further.

Our local John Lewis had two models with a viewfinder: The Sony FDR-AX53 and a Canon Legria HF G40 (which has a 3.5" OLED screen) and it was clear from initial checking that the Canon was a 'twiddle’s delight', but sadly, it had one serious drawback for me, in that screen was simply not bright enough in daylight (even in its highest setting), requiring the viewfinder to be used most of the time outside.  Although, as with the VXF1, the Canon viewfinder also had a rubber eyecup, making it much better to use outside when compared with the AX53 viewfinder with no rubber eyecup.

At this point I thought the best way forward, was to see what the AX53 HD resolution was like and made some recordings with a Test Card as with the VXF1 and took them home, where I was very surprised to find it was better than my old Panasonic TM700!

As Sony also downscale from 4K, it seems that their downscaler method is better than the one  Panasonic use on the VXF1!

In addition, I had fallen for Sony’s truly excellent BOSS Steadyshot system, which must be the best available at present for hand held operation.  I then found a solution to the lack of rubber eyecup in the form of a very cut down 32mm rifle scope eyecup (not perfect, but it works).  So after further assessment in the light of the many AX53 reviews, I decided it met my requirement better than the Canon and purchased one.  Perhaps the worst point of the AX58 is the audio side, which is far less customisable when compared with the VXF1 (or my old TM700) and there some low level noise picked up from the BOSS system that can be heard in quiet locations.

Terfyn

That is a pity. Did they mention a firmware upgrade to compensate for this? Did you update the firmware with the January release to version 1.1?
Glad I picked the 800 which would have none of these problems.

johnkm

The email I had from Panasonic, where they ('sort of') admitted what I had found was correct, was dated 24 Jan, so I would have thought they would have mentioned the upgrade if it would have solved this, so I think you were very lucky to have purchased the 800.
Having used 4K at 25p, I am really not convinced that 25p is good enough for taking scenes with movement, so I would have done the same if that model had a viewfinder.  Particularly if I had known that this saga wasn't to be finally concluded until April, when the refunds were paid!

Having just returned from holiday, I have not yet got round to checking if the AX53 performance does impress in actual use.

HenryPorter

johnkm

Decisions, decisions, decisions!

Many thanks thanks for your comprehensive update.   It is most appreciated.

I guess there is no 'one size fits all' option.  I have been happily using a HDC-TM900 for about ten years now in HD and wanted to step up to 4k, considering staying with Panasonic as I am generally  pleased with the HD results.  To read your initial findings, and now the subsequent confirmation, regarding HD quality was a disappointment.

I have to say, however, that I am grateful to you for spotting this deficiency in HD quality on the VXF1.  I wouldn't want to have to carry 2 camcorders around just to get the best quality in each mode.

I also note, though this is less of an issue for me, that the still image quality is lower on the AX53 (around 20mp), compared to 26mp on the VXF1.   My TM900 is 14.2mp so either new option would be a step up in this regard.

I believe also that the optical zoom on the AX53 is lower than the VXF1.

I am still wavering now and seriously considering the SONY having  previously set my heart on the Panasonic.

Any further opinions, once you have had time to use the SONY, would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again.

Terfyn

If you do not like Panasonic, what is wrong with Canon for example?
I fell out of love with Sony when, in the Hi-8 days, Sony tried to limit customers to just Sony kit. There was no choice over add-on kit.

I moved to a Canon HV20 in 2005 when my Granddaughter was born. It was an excellent camera for its time but I became concerned about tape recording, firewire and the robustness of the mechanism. I moved to Panasonic SD card based cameras in 2010 and am satisfied with the results. The Panasonic hybrid OIS compares well with the BOSS system and gives a steady shot even in telephoto mode.

M Stewart

Thanks to all for your various updates.  

For the time being, I guess I shall stay with my Canon HF-G30, Panasonic HC-X900, & Panasonic HC-V510.  All claim to shoot in Full HD and work well over an HDMI link to my TV.  Both the G30 and X900 have a viewfinder, which I very definitely prefer for my usage, which includes short videos of garden moths, butterflies and damselflies.