Monitored home alarm with CCTV: can monitoring centres access video only when alarm goes off? or could they spy on us?

VforViennetta

I’m in the market for a monitored home alarm system. I was wondering about adding WiFi or PoE cameras, as they have become quite inexpensive. However:
if I set them up so that only I, and not the monitoring centre, can view them, they become quite useless if the alarm goes off while I’m unreachable;if the monitoring centre can access the video, that’s useful to rule out false alarms, but how can I be sure they won’t “spy” on me? I am not particularly interesting to spy on but the mere thought that a rogue employee might still gives me the creeps. Is there any way to ensure they can access the cameras only if the alarm goes off?
Also, I have contacted Texecom but they said their app can give me remote control of IP camera via their cloud, but the cameras wouldn’t be connected to the alarm system, so any kind of monitoring would need to be discussed with an installer.

On this, AMCO said they can monitor CCTV, that they would only access the cameras when the alarm is triggered, but that, technically, the connection is such that an employee could access them anytime, even when we’re home.

mushii

I am afraid that you seem to want your cake and to eat it. You want CCTV monitoring, but only want limited access and you seem not to trust a professional alarm monitoring company not to spy on you. I would suggest that you buy a professional monitored alarm service for your alarm and have a professional install of your CCTV separately, that only you can access. I think that £2k should cover that, plus an ongoing fee from somebody like ADT. Oh and do not fall for the Police Monitored Alarm guff - there is no such thing. All they do is charge an extra £30 a month to call the Police when the alarm goes off. Figure around £30 a month for monitored alarm - they will inform a keyholder that the alarm has been activated. If you want them to call the Police on your behalf, then add an additional £30 a month on top.

VforViennetta

Than you for the reply. Just to be clear, do you think there is no such thing, or have you looked into it / work in this space etc and are fairly confident there is no such thing?

AMCO and Verisure have panels that let the monitoring centre talk to the client, but they - supposedly - become active only when the alarm goes off, so I was wondering if something similar could apply to CCTV. I suppose that, technically, what I am asking shouldn't be too impossible but, practically, the kind of clients that want CCTV monitoring want a constant monitoring more than monitoring which only kicks in after the alarm goes off.

Verisure and a couple of other brands have photodetectors which take still photos; that might be worth looking into, but it's probably for a separate thread as it's a different topic.

VforViennetta

Actually, thinking about it, Texecom's app can connect smartplugs to the alarm. So you should be able to set a rule (they call it 'recipe') that turns on a smartplug when you arm the alarm, and turns it off when you disarm it. If you have PoE cameras, this smartplug must power the switch to which the PoE cameras are connected. In theory it should work. Not sure if certain cameras could be damaged if you switch them off like this, though.

Risco seems to have smartplugs, too, but I don't know if you can set rules linking them to the alarm.

AFAIK Pyronix and Visonic do not have them. Maybe ADT?

mushii

Yes I have worked in this space - I worked closely with a Security and Access Engineer when i was doing HA installs. He looked after all of the Security and Access control instillation as clients wanted Accredited Installs. Most systems will have a continuous feed on the cameras, but the monitoring centres have thousands of alarms and cameras to monitor and will only access your feeds if an alarm is triggered (they are too busy). Plus the Professionally Accredited and Registered Monitoring Centres are heavily regulated and audited. They will have logs (and recordings) of when your cameras were accessed and what was viewed, by whom and why. This will not necessarily stop one rogue employee but as a whole, the industry is very accountable for its actions. These services do not come cheap. If you opt for a smaller company or new player in the market, they may not necessarily have the track record or protocols in place of the larger players in the market. You will ultimately get what you pay for. Some of the new players in the market make a lot of noise about their smart systems that look very 'hi tech' and how much cheaper they are and that they have 'security patrol response' etc. My experience is that all that glitters is not gold and that the more established players in the market have been around this long because they know what they are doing and how much it costs to actually do the job properly. Their kit looks clunkier because that is what EN/ISO certified alarm systems look like, its designed to do a job, reliably.

I have experience of at least one of those companies that you mention, that totally failed a vulnerable client. They promised a lot and actually delivered almost nothing when it came to the crunch, after charging quite a lot of money. At the end of the day how much reliance would you put on a guy that is paid minimum wage to drive around a 50 mile radius, in a van with his dog to be your first port of call in security situation.

Also be careful to check out which parts of their business are NSI Gold/Silver approved. Very often it is only their monitoring centre and not their alarms or any other part of their business.

The world today is a smaller place. A decent modern alarm and CCTV system can alert you almost anywhere in the world of nefarious activity at your property. Whether it is a prowler checking doors or an unwanted entry into your property. Its just as easy for you to call the Police as it is for an alarm company. There is ZERO difference in the response that you will get.

VforViennetta

I see – thank you so much for taking the time to reply!



I’ll probably consider a local security company as keyholder and alarm response, so that they can attend by motorcycle if something happens while I’m away. I would not place much reliance on Verisure’s patrol response, to be fair, because they are not based close enough, and I have no idea of the car/clients ratio.



The point about switching off the cameras wasn’t just my paranoia, it was also because we’d like to give assurance to our children’s nanny that we are not filming her while she is looking after our children.

A CCTV on the front entrance might even be counterproductive: we’d be the only ones on the road and people might wonder what’s so valuable in our home. Camera in the living room and the kitchen might be helpful to double check if it’s a false alarm or not.



Since you are so familiar with the industry, can I ask you what exactly should I look for in an installer, monitoring centre and alarm kit?



There are local installers which can fit pretty much all kinds of kit, you then pay them for the monitoring, but the actual monitoring is not done by them, but by a separate monitoring centre somewhere else in the country.



Then there are companies like Banham which don’t make their own kit (they use Pyronix, although with their branding – their app is made by Pyronix) but have their own monitoring centre.



As for the kit, are there specific certifications I should want? I hear about rgade 1/grade 2 but not sure about the difference.



Thanks a lot!

mushii

Erm now you are getting into a whole world of pain. As you employ a nanny your house is her place of work and cameras at work require certain safeguards and registrations. Add children into the mix, even if they are your children, now we also have to follow certain additional safeguarding guidelines. This is the point where I bow out as it becomes very specialist and there are legal ramifications. I would think carefully if you want to put cameras inside your house that is also a third parties place of work as you will have to register your cameras with the Data Protection Registrar and you will need to appoint a data controller to be responsible for the footage.

VforViennetta

I was hoping there wouldn't be privacy implications as long as the cameras are switched off but you're right, I need to look into the legal implications very carefully.

Now that I think of it, I also wonder if things like Verisure or Risco's photodetectors would be considered as akin to CCTV: they don't record video, and realistically they'd only be used when the alarm goes off, but, in theory, they could be used to take a still picture of a nanny or a cleaner while they are working in the living room or the kitchen.

mushii

You would need to verify and document that there is no means of the video equipment being activated, by a third party, whilst your nanny was present in the house. You would also have to ensure that there was no audio recording either as the Home Office guidelines are quite clear that unless their are exceptional circumstances, cameras in the workplace do not facilitate audio recording - as this then reaches into breaches of human rights.

If there is a risk of children being recorded you have to also ensure that EVERYONE who has access to the footage has been vetted to the higher CRB and DBS screenings. That is YOUR responsibility not the monitoring centres.

I have been down this path once before on very similar grounds and the client was not prepared to comply with the legal requirements of Data Protection and GDPR and child safeguarding. I also graciously backed out of that project as I would not want to be associated with something that I knew was deliberately designed to transgress UK Law and violate an unknowing parties rights.

This area is a legal minefield as it crosses a lot of different legislative boundaries and I am not an expert. I would suggest that if this a route that you want to go down you take some expert advice, from a data protection angle and employment / HR angle.  You will have to notify your nanny, explain to her her rights and maybe re-negotiate her terms of employment (if she chooses to continue to work in the environment).

VforViennetta

Thank you for pointing out all of this, really appreciated.

This actually makes me think that something like Verisure's photo detectors could be a risk; I suppose I can specify in the employment contract that I would only use them if the alarm goes off, but I cannot guarantee that the monitoring centre doesn't take a picture, if only by mistake, when the nanny is home. Btw, that's one thing that give mes the creeps: could Verisure spy on clients? Or would clients know because those thingies always fire a flash?



The easiest solution is of course an alarm with no CCTV and which cannot take any pictures. If I decide for something different, I'll need legal advice as you rightly say - on the internet one can seek opinions on technical gear, not on complex legal matters!