Electric Cars - Look at the power grid

DOBLY

^^^ what I was getting at was that if houses can power themselves and a car or two, then the grid becomes a top-up system, where you only buy electricity when it is both cheap and required (as above).
I do see the national grid's POV - of course it is a vested interest and does little or anything to promote use of free* solar electricity

*nothing is free

if every house that required a new roof replaced traditional tiles with something like Tesla's solar roof tiles, what would that do to demand for power?

Brucepeter2007

With the so called ban for diesel lorries and cars I can’t see how we can cope - Tesla is only just trying out a battery lorry so what are lorries supposed to operate on - petrol is the logical short term answer but the MPG on a diesel is supposed to be better on a lorry!!!
Once we go electric I still say the infrastructure for electric is just not there as each successive government has refrained from taking the plunge with increasing the UKs power requirements so at peak times we are almost flat out for power and if you have been watching the gauges from the site I posted = thank goodness for wind power”.
Pushing electric vehicles is just a bit too early at this moment in time for the masses but alright for the few who don’t live in a high rise...
It’s not the cars but the infrastructure that’s not there and won’t be because who is going to pay for it - as the previous post mentioned so eloquently - nothing is free...

Brucepeter2007

Regarding wind power - just looked at the national grid and wind power is generating more electricity at the moment than anything else...
From the Financial Times November last year... Tesla’s new truck would take a charge equivalent to the power used by 4000 homes...
Lights out!

dannnielll

The peak solar energy hitting our roofs is about 1kw sq m , but with pv panels about 15% to 20% , The peak power per metre sq of roof is about 150 watt,  a very big house might have 100 msq of roof , and peak power is available for say 3 hrs per day. Only 50% at best of the roof is suitable  so in round numbers a house might provide a peak power of 7 kw  or 21 kwhrs per day.  There will be lesser amounts beyond the peak hours ...
The national grid  is a different organisation than the electrical power producer so does not have a vested interest in preventing producers or the public generating power.. it is more like a toll road where all the traffic has to pay a sum to use the road, but each user has to have their own expensive car.  The grid has a different responsibility, grid stability . They will only let users onto the grid if they are convinced that they will not cause it to go unstable.  Ultimately one will end up paying a rent for having the facility, whether you use it or not... Like insurance.

Frostytouch

Do you have a source for your claim , regarding the Tesla truck?

Rumour is they have circa 500kwh in their battery pack, so interested to see how the 4000 homes links to that.

noiseboy72

Demand Side Response is quite a good earner for industry and data centers. Simply reduce your demand at peak times and sell the electricity you haven't used back to the grid. It even makes financial sense to run the diesel (!) standby generators at peak times to supplement the grid at current prices. Using battery storage gets us so far, but there's only a few hundred MW installed in the UK at the moment I think? The best battery storage solutions are about 80-85% efficient at the moment, so that's quite a lot of wasted energy. The idea of using a car's battery as a peak demand unit is interesting, but it doesn't provide a huge win until we have lots of them on the road.

Power generation in the UK is a mess at the moment. We are far too reliant on medium sized gas stations, yet there is recognition that gas is a finite resource and we are importing the majority of it.

Solar needs to improve efficiency to be viable, hydro is not available in sufficient quantities in the UK while wind power simply cannot be depended upon as a primary source. Fossil fuels of the "cleaner" variety all have limited supplies which leaves us basically nuclear. None of this is very palatable to politicians, so reducing peak demand and switching everyone to 30 minute metering - where you pay per 30 minute use, with a variable tariff throughout the day is our best hope in the short term. This evens out demand and gives a lower peak load requirement.

I think we are headed for something of an energy crisis in transport if the environmentalists get their way. Diesel is the best energy source for HGVs, being 97% cleaner than it was 20 years ago, while switching to petrol hybrid for cars  - or being smarter with what vehicle is used where - petrol or diesel for long journeys with payloads, hybrid for medium distance with city / stop start running and pure electric for high pollution black spots is one solution.

The Tesla truck won't work in its current form in the UK according to the Freight Transport Association. It's based upon the US standard of 32T - 36T, That's 6-8T less than we run in the UK, plus the additional weight of the batteries, so almost 12T less payload. That simply doesn't make economic sense. Even final mile light vans are a struggle as electric. There's moves to increase the basic licence entitlement to 4.25T, as a 3.5T electric van has a payload over less than 700KGs which again, makes no sense.

Interestingly on the pollution front, only London really has a big problem. Look at the maps of high levels in other cities and it's normally a few hot spots or short sections of roads. Therefore, vehicles with slightly higher levels of NOx and CO2 are not as harmful to the local environment.

Personally, I am for larger, heavier trucks - double trailer, as is being trialed and used overseas. These are more fuel efficient and reduce journey miles and total vehicle numbers. Couple this with smarter final mile logistics - why do we have 6 different companies delivering similar products into a neighbourhood rather than consolidating and we can reduce emissions by 20 - 30%

Brucepeter2007

Hi there. The details were reported in a November issue of the Financial Times that’s where the figures came from...

Brucepeter2007

I have to say I enjoyed reading the above and I tend to agree with a lot of it. I posted the original “look at the National Grid” to try to get people to understand how bad our energy system is and how close we get to the edge when demand peaks and the electric car can only make matters worse. Governments always tend to look short term and watch for vote losers and the power market has been just that over many parties who have been in power...
One thing I am trying to install into my young grandchildren is to seriously consider getting into politics as a profession as it’s a great blue chip job fantastic pension and no retirement age at all...

noiseboy72

My Aunt is Jean Lambert, Green Party MEP. She's just finishing her 3rd term, so retires on a nice juicy euro pension, after 12 years of service...

dannnielll

I am in agreement with a lot of what you say and will revert to the standard answer I gicg whenever anyone seems interested... Read the free download book by the Cambridge physicist McKay .. renewable energy without the hot air.
Just a few cavets. Solar PV cannot get much more efficient, it may get a little cheaper and therefore economic, but not  more efficient....
Don't dismiss wind so lightly,  yes it's intermittent, but once you consider  pan European  grids and solar from southern Spain and north Africa, it's intermittent nature can average out.
The UK has probably exhausted it's hydro resource.. that which is worth doing has already been done, but there is some space in tidal barriers , and on shore hydro.
The potential for energy reduction in daily life has only been started. If 10 years ago, people had expected that LED lighting would be as widespread as it is , they would have been seen as dreamers.