Ted Talk: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads .>

EarthRod

You're over-egging the cake TB and pointing out stuff I already know but choose not to mention. Having given countless presentations and been caught out numerous times by crafty questions I have a tendency to let people think they know better, which of course they do and I'm quite happy with that.

Subliminal markers and subconscious awareness is beyond my conscious control therefore I discount it. It might or might not effect my thinking but so what? Basically, because I'm not too bright, I have a suspicion any subliminal message gets lost.

I have no doubt targeting methodology in advertising works otherwise they wouldn't waste their time, effort or money devising the algorithms. Maybe they are targeting bright young educated people and not idiots like me

Toko Black

My posts and comments are in reply to two lines in the OP and rebuttle of Pacifico and your responses that appear to limit/restrict or simply focus on and be dismissive of generic advertising and pop up's rather than dealing with and addressing the discussion and topic as a whole.

"These same algorithms may also be used to to target folk and or change voting habits just based on web browsing history"

"Can we be manipulated and led by algorithms on real issues that are important to our way of life ?"

Sorry if you feel it's patronising, but my only intention is try to make my argument and points clear, especially when the poster gives the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they are missing or avoiding important points - or not recognising the significance and importance of them.
Of course it may be the case that I'm missing or misinterpreting what is said, but either way I am still genuinely trying to have and deliver an informed conversation and do so the only way I really know how.
I don't really care if you think I am clever ... well that is not actually true, I would like to be thought of as such like many people would, but what I mean is that I don't remotely care enough to try and impress, embellish or pretend that I am.
What I am though is incredibly sensitive to being thought of as stupid or disingenuous - which is why I waffle on the way I often do (I am aware of it but can't help it) in an attempt to try and make sure people know what I really mean and there is less chance of misunderstanding.

...... but that seems to annoy people and give the impression I am trying to appear clever, be patronising or infering they are stupid of which at the very least the first two I genuinely never want to do and the third I restrict to cases of seemingly deliberate and repeated ill informed nonsense in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Pacifico

But if targeted advertising doesn't work very well why would targeted voter manipulation work any better?

I do fully accept that those that choose to get most of their news from social media can end up living in a bubble due to the targeted stories - but that has always applied. If you only read the Guardian you are going to have a very warped view of the world same as if you only read the Daily Mail.

Fortunately most people are somewhat more balanced and takes their news from all ends of the spectrum.

Jezza99

Ae we know to our cost

Toko Black

That is making the assumption that generic targeted advertising is using the best, most devious and effective methods available - which in general it isn't.
Targeted advertising is still relatively simple and generalised - but it can be much more effective and subtle, especially if one considered organisations and governments using such tools to manipulate internal and/or external populations.

The generic targeted advertising we are generally aware of is relatively simple because it's cost effective at reaching/getting recognition from the most number of people for the least amount of effort and cost. In other words, the cost benefit ratio is low/high.
However, if your priorities are not aimed at maximising market share for optimal costings, you can invest more time and effort into utilising more sophisticated aspects of targeted information to spread messages.

While in general, internal state propaganda has historically been controlled or limited to individual states themselves, the proliferation of the internet, social media and data profiling allows external countries to quickly and easily communicate and disseminate messages around the world without any borders or travel time, especially in Western Democracies that are far more 'open' and less ring fenced by political censorship.

It is the combination of basic advertising techniques and channels tied in with political and state propaganda utilising more sophisticated and less restricted by commercial pressure subtle messaging and manipulation that concerns me, not general advertising in and of itself.

Even the relatively simple, yet somewhat effective use of polarising advertising by Russia across social media and net services aimed at exacerbating tensions between political parties is an example of why we should worry.
There are seemingly enough people out there in polemic echo chambers of social media platform groups to provide significant impacts upon public opinion.
Organisations, groups and governments can and seemingly have manipulated those groups to increase the hostility and tensions by tailoring posts and messages aimed at ramping up each sides specific fears and anger issues.

Pacifico

Blaming the Russians for propaganda and misinformation is a great excuse for the establishment and Governments when things dont go the way they want - we see that the Madrid Government is now blaming the vote for Catalan independence on the Russians.

"Spain’s struggle to quash separatism in its Catalonia region was disrupted by Russian hackers agitating for a break-up, in a hallmark propaganda effort to fracture Europe, according to a government-backed research institute in Madrid."​
Of course the Madrid Government is desperate to move the story away from their  use of violence to prevent a democratic vote. Also we are supposed to believe that the Catalans who have been campaigning for independence for Centuries are now suddenly taken in by Russian trolls.

Bl4ckGryph0n

Sometimes a like is not enough, I love that Count me in...

EarthRod

I've learnt the hard way that communication is the name of the game and building a rapport with other people is the best way to get the message across.

That's it

Ruperts slippers

Persuasion architecture in super markets works because the target audience is a child, easily manipulated, the child has very little self control, employs asking-ramping upto full on tantrums to force the parents hand. Either be buy or walk out of the store with a screaming child.
Adults, well we can make a choice to either buy or not buy, I think a lot of comes down to whether as a person we buy into the social expectations surrounding eg birthdays, xmas and status of the 'Items' being advertised.
To buy or not to buy, that is the question, watching and listening to people at yesterdays birthday party it's clear to see that people can be herded quite easily and people actually enjoy this society we've created. People like materialism, appeals to a sense of belonging, the new community a commoditised functional human society. A giant Hallmark bubble, suppose it depends on whether it appeals and available resources.
As for political influences, yes indeed social media has been a powerful tool in normative political thought, especially the labour party with endless list of promises, versus the seemingly cold hearted empirical nature of the conservatives, which seem lame when the two are compared side by side.

Personally I don't have the resources to spend, spend, I hate 'Hallmark' culture eg lavish celebrations surrounding xmas and birthdays etc. And politically, academic politics is different from the politics fed to the man/woman in the street. I suppose I feel aloof, not part of society and that suits me fine.

Hence why I'm happier when I go for long walks, alone and at peace away from the hustle and bustle of digital media and the physical world.

EarthRod

Sometimes you feel part of the crowd, joining in and having a party.

Other times, stand about looking at other people laughing and having a good time, but not joining in.