Why is the taxpayer paying for HS2?

fluxo

I didn't say "run infrastructure projects".

Customers frequently fund infrastructure projects. It's completely normal. If you pay for a mobile phone service then part of what you pay funds the 3G/4G masts. If you shop at Sainsbury's, then a proportion of your bill funds their distribution network. They don't expect the taxpayer to build it for them.

If you want to throw many billions of taxpayers' money at the railways, that is your choice. But it suggests to me you care not one jot about the massive debt the government is accumulating.

tapzilla2k

Are you serious?

Yes of course customers ultimately pay. But Vodafone don't open a fund for customers to deposit money to build a new 4G mast do they?

If you are saying that railways should not be subsidised then that is a different argument.

As to what I want the government to do with taxpayers money, then you are wrong. I haven't expressed any support for the scheme. I've just pointed out the nonsense of your position that customers should directly fund infrastructure for their suppliers.

alan280170

It is my argument and the one I was making from the start.

At what point did I mention opening funds and customers depositing money in such a fund?

Rasczak

The argument to remove subsidies is more about fares than HS2. Any individual infrastructure project is a minor consideration compared to the economic and political timebomb that removing all subsidies would cause.

Greg Hook

£50 billion is hardly a minor consideration and it's not loose change to a heavily indebted government. Where do you think the money is coming from for this?

Where it should come from is from the train operating companies and, ultimately, from the fare paying passengers. Those companies are privately run businesses and if they can't survive without state handouts, then we are not far off the bad old days of British Leyland and the government support of unviable business models.

Sonic67

We need to rebuild our railway network for the 21st century, either that's going to come from the private sector or the taxpayer or mix of both. I'm not however sure that spending £42 Billion  on HS2 is the right thing to be doing, while some parts of the railway network are still in the process of being electrified. The infrastructure is far behind that of other countries and that is a sad thing to see given the history of rail.

As far as ticket prices go ? It's the taxpayer that foots the bill to keep the railways going. It's like most of the Tories privatization schemes - Only seems to work out for shareholders in the companies running utilities etc while the taxpayer keeps things ticking over and absorbs any losses. Labour didn't really do much to improve the situation either.  I think the subsidies in 2013 were something like £1 billion from the taxpayer with a payout of £200 million by train companies to shareholders. Without that then I doubt the train companies would that interested in running services. There is some merit to the idea of nationalising the railways while we sort the mess out. But I doubt we have Politicians with the guts to do something as radical as that. The system as it is will reach a breaking point i.e. prices will reach a level where people simply won't be able to afford them and that will send shockwaves through the economy.

The infrastructure project I want to see is the rebuilding of the National Grid and new power stations. We can't put that off for much longer. No point in having fast trains if the National Grid can't keep up with demand and we get rolling power outages at peak times.

DandyAndy

How far does H2S go north.

Sve

Not far enough:
Maps and plans | HS2

It doesn't even reach the geographical centre of the British mainland! Instead the north of England is being appeased with HS3 (a link between Manchester and Leeds) sometime in the distant future. Scotland is just forgotten. I am however broadly unconvinced by the whole HS2 argument.

High speed is rail is important. But there are probably other infrastructure projects that would do a lot more for a greater number of people - improving the Motorway network in Wales, Northumberland/Scottish Borders and maybe even East Anglia as key examples. I would rate all these above a train that gets businessmen to London a handful of minutes faster than before.

IronGiant

Complete and utter waste of money. It's such a ridiculous idea it amazes me it has got this far. Clearly a lot of palms are being greased.

All this money just to save a few minutes off a journey. Shocking. Hopefully the next Government will throw this out.

EarthRod

It was Labour's idea in the first place.