UK!

PatMrex

And yet, it is welcoming and if not a little bit of an oddity to hear opponents of Brexit conveniently proclaiming a sudden loyalty to parliamentary sovereignty, no matter how strategic and insincere they are. Especially since EU membership has distorted the relationship between the executive and the legislature and how the legislature relates to the people.

Supersonic

Only way to change the MPs is to vote them out. But as soon as new MPs take office, they can become the same self-interested hypocrites as the last lot.

Democracy (of any kind) doesn't always result in the best way forward.

I reckon MPs should be randomly chosen, like jury service. Billy Connolly was right when he said anyone who wants to be a politician should automatically be prohibited from becoming one.

kav

It's pretty straightforward to me. Brexit is happening, and this is the process that must be followed as a result of the result. Complaining about the process being messy and convoluted and subject to challenge is crying over spilt milk. What on earth did people think would happen with something so complex?

Not to mention that it's disingenuous to on one hand uphold that this is the cornerstone of what was voted for and at the same time disparage it because it isn't being all wrapped up in time for tea exactly how the Leave element of the UK wants it. Democracy is messy, but it's the least worst option we have. Given the outcome of this will affect the lives of our children, their children, and beyond, it's worth taking the time to consider every step carefully.

Pacifico

It is?

Already spent 3 years and the transition period suggested is another 2.

There is taking your time and there is stalling.

PatMrex

Agreed.

I can't work out whether Kav's post is naive or disingenuous.

I have that problem when many remainers opine their view - after all, there is a clue in the title 'remain-er'.

kav

And likely another 10 on top of that before the UK is fully out. 40  years of intricately developed cooperative efforts can't be unravelled at the click of the fingers.

Maybe try reading posts for what they say rather than just slapping a label on them because you didn't vote the same way.

EarthRod

Surprising comment.

That is, word for word, taken straight out of the book of DIY soapbox politics.

Rasczak

Why is it a surprising comment? This withdrawal agreement makes permanent arrangements for Northern Ireland (that will also affect the UK) that will endure for decades.  The broader agreement is also going to relevant for, at the very least, several years and possibly much, much longer.  It seems very bizarre to try and rush it through without appropriate scrutiny.

PatMrex

Experience has taught me the duplicitous nature of certain folk cannot be taken at face value.

For example, you claimed it was pretty straightforward to you that Brexit was happening and the process should be followed as a result of the referendum.

There are many people who certainly disagree with a) Brexit is happening & b) the process should be followed.

And many of those people undertake their work in parliament, never mind 48% of voters.

So, I don't know what makes you so certain Brexit is happening. I certainly wouldn't put my mortgage on it at this stage.

Bl4ckGryph0n

A people’s vote? And what voted in the 2016 referendum? Weren’t those people?

What is a people’s vote going to resolve anyway? Options;
- No deal as in no withdrawal agreement: hmm parliament has already voted against that.
- Mays deal: hmm Parliament already voted three time’s against that.
- Boris deal: hmm Parliament knows it is right but are doing everything to loose momentum and not have to vote for it.

I know it’s not their job, but after three years wouldn’t you have thought that someone would stand up and present a credible proposal in favour of Brexit. I mean in theory all of the main parties stood on the promise of Brexit.