Thanks again, this is so far over my head but gives me plenty to investigate further
It's really not that hard to understand this market imo. Keeping it really basic for ease of use over accuracy:
cpu - raw thinking speed
motherboard - aka mobo, think of it as the bit you screw everything else onto, just like a lego board
ram - short term, fast access memory, the cpu needs this as it can't cope with everything you throw at it, it's like the computers notebook or what it uses to juggle
gpu - graphics speed and self explanatory at this level of explanation
ssd/ hard drive - long term memory / like a library of all your stuff
Now here's the thing. RAM is always fast. More of it is better. Faster RAM doesn't really matter. Just make sure you have enough and that the motherboard has slots / supports what you need. 8GB is probably fine. space for 16 is sensible. You want a board with DDR3 RAM not because its so much faster than DDR2 or DDR (!), but because it is what is / was used in the mobos /cpus you will want.
CPU it's Intel or AMD. Several years ago AMD were not competing high end. In the used market you are going to want an Intel at the moment. They are all numbered by year, if overclockable they are more exp. and have a k on the end of the code name. You are going to want a 2000, 3000 or 4000 series probably. You want a quad core, not dual core. You can compare speeds by googling the component name against another e.g. "i5 2500k vs i5 4650". If overclocked it's like making your engine run faster. Think of it in percentage terms versus base clock and factor that in to your comparisons. Overclocking requires nice fans and heatsinks (large bits of metal with lots of fins connected to the metal plates above the CPU / GPU chips. Better fans/heatsinks also means a quieter PC when it's not being used for gaming.
GPU. The easiest component to upgrade. So long as the mobo has a PCI-E x16 slot to put it in you're fine. Just check the case is big enough to take it. Cases are easy enough to replace though esp. if your son is keen to do it himself. They're AMD or nvidia. Again, they follow a fairly easy to follow naming convention each year, e.g. Nvidia..... gtx 700 series, gtx 900 series, gtx 1000 series, rtx 2000 series. The second part of the nvidia code is e.g. 40 5060, 70, 80. Enthusiast is anything at or over '70' e.g. gtx 780 or 970. Lower than a 70 is cheaper and inferior, sometimes over several generations. More than a 70 is very expensive when launched, i.e. for really well off folks. Add Ti means it's a turbo edition of that card basically brought out in response to competition. Top/popular models from previous nvidia years are gtx 780, 970, 980 1070 etc. These are the good ones that cost a few hundred pounds. They are all still capable cards whereas every year nvidia and AMD still churn out new budget cards that are much slower than the proper cards of yesteryear. On a budget you are going to be looking at gtx 970. The AMD cards of yesteryear (I have the 390) are power hungry.
On a budget your PSU (power regulator) is probably going to be low quality so I would stick with Intel and nvidia as these are more power efficient. Over time, a good PSU will pay for itself by not ruining your expensive components with voltage spikes etc. But don't worry too much for now.
SSD- get a 240GB SSD, preferably Intel for reliability. I like the 520 series as they're server grade. There are faster these days. But they're all so fast, it doesn't really matter. The SSD will mean the PC is nicer to use than a modern tablet etc. Without an SSD, it will just feel old, and nobody will want to use it.
You'll also want a 500GB hard drive or bigger to begin with.
Monitors matter, but they are all a lot better for the money these days, and are easily upgraded. Also the differences aren't enormous imo. Gamers talk about speed/refresh rate and used to like TN panels but they must have been blind as they look awful with color shifts etc. I'd go for a used ips screen for eye comfort and general use. IPS screens can be okay for gaming, but it's model specific so check for lag. Dell are very popular so easy to find used / i.e. worth researching by model name as you have a chance of finding whichever ones you prefer.
Get a nice keyboard and mouse too, old ones can ruin the experience. I prefer Logitech wireless mouses with back/forward button on the left hand side, and a small keyboard like the Microsoft Arc. These days the kids like gaudy keyboards for gaming I think so might want to allocate some presents from family for such upgrades.
Thanks so much for taking the time, that's really useful plus has confirmed some of the info I had found out today.
I'm actually going to print that post out for my son aswell.
This is the latest option I've considered, taking into account as much of this thread as possible, what do you think? I've got a decent monitor I'm donating too him and he has his own gaming mouse and keyboard already
Thanks again
Ultra Fast Quad Core i5 Gaming PC Tower 8GB RAM 1TB HDD WIFI Windows 10 Desktop 5060500437381 | eBay
I personally wouldn't look at such listings. This is something where a retailer has to make money on and will use cheapest stuff available to build it. Graphics card in this machine won't play any modern games. I would strongly suggest finding a complete second hand machine with half decent gpu. You should be able to find one with gtx 1060 or 970 within your budget, which will perform way better than this pc where about are you based? Maybe we can find some local offers for you to consider?
Thanks, im in Northern Ireland
@Fat_Tony I agree with the above. I wouldn't buy it on principle because they are suggesting the GPU is good enough for 'pro gamers'. That is not in any way true. It is approx. 200x less powerful than a gtx970. By the way, also look for gtx 780, it's only £80-ish used and it's a proper GPU, albeit only 2GB.
A gaming pc does not have to have bright lights everywhere, they can be subtle, hidden away and quiet. Essentially its a motherboard with nice components stuck to it.
For reliability (and compatibility) I wouldn't want any motherboard that wasn't MSI, Gigabyte, EVGA or Asus. My point is not that you should't consider cheaper options, but that you need to think in terms of components and chips, rather than just brand names like i5 or whatever. If a seller doesn't mention branded mobo or psu, you can assume they are rubbish and barely adequate. If buying used, that is a consideration regarding reliability.
All nice components are expensive. Your best bet at getting something nice for not a lot of money is to find someone selling the whole PC including nice PSU, perhaps someone who has just bought an Xbox One X or otherwise decided PC gaming is not for them anymore. Prioritise a good CPU generation and motherboard. Everything else can be upgraded much easier than the motherboard. If you go with a 4000 series CPU /motherboard initially, even if you don't get an overclockable one, then you can perhaps upgrade to a 4xxxk eventually (you'll need to check the mobo model supports overclocking on the manufacturer website), which will be a fair amount faster than the best 2000 series etc. The CPU will limit how fast a GPU you put in the system (due to it otherwise being a bottleneck for the system) and therefore how long it will last.
Buy used but from a personal not business seller. You may end up with an annoying fault in a component, but at these prices that's a risk you have to take/ try to minimise, and you should be able to get a refund / return from ebay if it's faulty within a few weeks.
It can be useful to download a motherboard manual e.g. from Gigabyte/Asus website etc before you buy a system, just to check it does what you want. It will also give you confidence to follow the manual to make the PC or change components etc.
Thanks again for all the info, so to clarify for my own understanding, an example like the one I posted has a below standard graphics card? Is it equipped to take an upgrade to the one you mentioned?
Im definitely holding off buying anything while I get my head round all this stuff, I suspect I had unrealistic expectations after seeing some of those ebay packages.
I just checked the description and it is unclear what is being offered. I read the GPU is an nvidia GT710 which is still listed in the description.
"Make your entire PC experience faster with the new NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 710 dedicated graphics card. Now, you can enjoy up to 10x better performance than integrated graphics in all your favourite PC applications. Gaming is even up to 80% faster, while delivering rock-solid reliability and stability with GeForce Experience."
The GT710 is what I was referring to as 200x slower than the most popular card from 2-3 years ago the gtx 970:
UserBenchmark: Nvidia GeForce GT 710 vs GTX 970
But it may be a typo on their part. It looks like it could be shipping with a gtx 1050, but you'd have to clarify that with them. The gtx 1050 would be okay. The GT710 would be worse than rubbish.
Technically you could add whatever graphics card you want to it, assuming there is room in the case or you don't mind changing cases. But a PC is only as fast as it's slowest main component. With most games, you are going to be limited by the CPU with that PC, if you choose any gpu better than something like the gtx 1050/ 780 / 960 / 970 that sort of thing, maybe even with lower cards. I think for the price, it's not a great option., but it is an option if you add a £100 gpu like the 1050, 780 or better yet gtx 970.
fyi....
UserBenchmark: Nvidia GTX 1050 vs 780
I'm thinking of selling my old PC. Although not setup for gaming (only onboard graphics) a card could easily be added to it. Details are:
i7-2600K CPU
Asus P8Z68-V Pro MoBo
2x 4Gb (matched pair) Corsair 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
Antec P182 Advanced Super Midtower Case: P180 v.2 | silentpcreview.com
Antec P182SE silver case (some damage to the front as my son sat on it)
Mobo, RAM & CPU as stated above
Can't remember the CPU cooler (air) but has 2 fans and is quiet
Samsung 250Gb (approx.) SSD
Samsung DVD writer & LG Blu-ray reader both internal
Corsair HX520 modular power supply
No Windows as I use that on my new PC
You can have all this for £300 plus delivery (or collect).
If anybody is interested let me know and I'll stick an add in the classifieds.
Mark.
I use the P182 case myself for my server/ workstation (built around an i7 5820k). I modded it (simply drilling) to remove the cage and let me use the built-like-a-tank Antec CP850 power supply. Shame about the damage to your door.
@Fat_Tony depending on postage this is a good option for you perhaps. I'm not familiar enough with prices etc but the parts are all good. Cases can be replaced relatively cheaply when you feel confident doing it if that is an issue.
You could add a gtx 970 used for about £90, plus a Windows 7/10 license and you're good to go.