How condescending. Unfortunately the vast majority of us are 'programmed' to pay the bills because we have little choice.
I'm pleased for you that you have the time and the knowledge to install that yourself, but I would say 9/10 of the population wouldn't have the electronic knowhow to do it, and would be faced (as I was) with a £9000 quote. I'm surprised that installing yourself is legal anyway, it's getting to the point in the UK where you have to have a qualified engineer round to change the plug.
Also, an outlay of almost £4000 is a very considerable sum for most people.
Having now investigated virtually every type of renewable energy for my average 3 bedroom semi (I ignored hydro since I'm miles from water data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7), I am convinced that there is nothing that is remotely economical. I will though, put in a (smokeless-zone) wood burning stove with boiler - when I can gather up the £2k for the stove / plumber / fireplace / redecoration req'd.
Well said! data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
That's essentially what I was trying to say above.
You missed pointing out that his analogies are invalid. I agree that cars, shoes and electricity are equal in being products you buy, but one doesn't ask 'when do I get my money back' when buying electricity, either. He's comparing a purely optional extra (ie how you buy your electricity) with a basic (whether to buy shoes or a car).
And have a look at his economics. Let's assume that the £140 saving is per quarter, and that it's equal throughout the year (summer quarters you use less, but the sun's stronger, so it might even out). At an outlay of £3,700, that's a payback in 6.6 years: less than the 10 years he quotes, but not enormously so. Also, without knowing his circumstances, the figures are useless in applying to other households.
Not to mention the fact that 80% of the population don't even have a shed, and that 99% are not qualified by law to do that kind of work. Unless he's a qualified electrician, neither is he.
i see what u mean but your calculations are floored .as u said . .we dont no how much sun we are going to have each year and with your figures there are no increases in the price of electric over the next 6.6 years
the system ( off grid) one that i quoted only cost £2000 .. to set up that system runs my computer room and has a double socket in the front room for charging anything up to 1000 watts
i have zero qualifications on electrics ,
i just read asmuch as i could on the net for a year and the jumped into it as a hobby ..
this is how simple it isu can start with a solar light shedthey cost around £30.00or
if u want to go more into it buy say 2 x 40w panels of flee bay then buy a small inverter from £26.00 upwards then some cable that it if u can wire a 3 pin plug then u are sorted . and go to your local garage and as for some old batteries ..the batteries can still be used to store energy they maybe useless to start a car but great to store the power .. thats it sit back and make your own electric plug in your laptop etc maybe a monitor nothing to large like a kettle or lawn mower , and you are doing your bit for the climate andthe future of the kids and our air ,,
do a google search on videos for home solar sytems there are lots of people having a go !!
i have looked into wind turbines but they are over rated and need special conditions which i dont have ..the type i would need is a vertical turbine which are being tested still and too exspencive for me .. also they have moving parts which will break data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
if the system i have was to never payback its money which i dont think it will.. i will still save thousands of tons of carbon going into the airin england every year which to me is worth it .i think it works out around 40 large trucks of coal i save every yearto me it worth it .. im sorry that the power station will loose some profits and the miners and truck drivers will have less work but me and the missis and u guys will be healthier and breath better data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
Don't get me wrong. I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment, and I'd pay it myself if I thought it was worth it. There's nothing wrong with paying for things you want, for whatever reason. I'm just a bit sceptical of your figures, is all.
My main argument is that you seem to be saying that if you can do it for £3,700/£2,000 then anyone can (and should), and arthurdentpc and I are saying that that simply isn't true. The vast majority of people who want to do it are forced by circumstances to pay the full whack, and many residences (eg flats) are not suitable at all.
And if you're not a qualified electrician, then unless you did the installation more than a few years ago, you must by law get it signed off as OK. You could be required to provide a certificate as part of the HIPS if you ever sell the house.
Just as a matter of interest, how much power (as a % of total consumption) is actually used at a low enough rate/wattage to be easily supplied by an inverter.
I have a 400W inverter, which could power my computer/monitor/internet connection, or TV and stuff, lights maybe, but not a lot else.
Most of my power goes in electric heating/ hot water/refrigerator/dishwasher/washing machine, etc etc
Most of it is low level as u say they call it a phantom load
its them things that are plugged in all the time
i.e fridge /telephone /monitors /pc /laptops and if u have a combi boiler it only 40w for the pump ..
the main gas guzzerlers are if. lawn mover ( my flymo is a killowatt)
kettle around 2500 watts but only on for 2 min ..our hob is around 6000 watts with all 4 rings on but that goes down once the temp is reached
the inverter for my off grid ( battery setup) is 750w and a boost of 1100w for 3 min that does my 2 plug sockets in the front room and 6 in the computer room most of the time my pc and charger (like the mobile phone /battery chargers for aa batteries) run on the solar there might be the odd time i turn the inverter of if the batteries look like they are going below 12v i dont want to ruin them ..
a 400w inveter is a handy size to run some plugs of the only thing to watch is there are many inverter makes and i think 2 types
type 1.. pure sign wave
2.. normal inverter usually cheaper )
the pure signwave one means its very clean electric better than u will get from your supplier this is great for delicate stuff like your tv and laptop etc if u use the cheaper one say for a laptop the transformer it will make a clicking sound and may even break the transformer after years of use..
with the new breed of inverter from mastevolt these are designed to go in your house u connect a few solar panels run a lead to them ( use the right type of lead ) then hang the inverter on the wall. The lead goes in one end ( 3 wires like a plug ) the other lead that comes out of the inverter this one ustick a house hold plug on it and plug it into your mains what this does it grid tye u and your phantom load will go ..
look for the Mastervolt Soladin£375.00 does up to 600w of panels very easy to fit ..
as dpin said there are regs but they change every month with solar stuff ,, u used to need planning for panels now u dont, same as tackers ..the goverment are not quite sure what to do they want us to go green but theydont want us to pay less taxes and also dont wantto be seen that they are not green data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
i guess u are adding electrics to your house (mastervolt invertor)but u are using a 3 pin plug its kind of asking the council can i plug in my tv today please
There is another type of solar that call ( exporting) u pay your electric company around £150 for a small meter and all the electric u make goes up the grid they read both metres and pay u a cheque every 3 months that of sets your bill or zeros the bill
we buy electric at around 15p a killowatt.they buy it of us at 10p data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7 this year its 16p and next august its 40p so next year u can make a killing on your solar panels i think this is alot to do with the fines england will pay if the carbon does not reach a certainlevel. this way of doing it is good but not right now its a cleaner way add panels and inveter and the electric metre and u are sorted .. the main problem is they dont pay enough to the solar people
sorry if i am waffling on
its true what dpinbuck says its not for everyone i put of buying a new smart car for these panels and im running around in the old one i have ,,
but the question that i get asked all the time is they dont pay for themselves which is wrong and most people dont mind loosing money on all the other things they buy there was a govement report which cost us tax payer thousandsit looked into solar and the report said in would take 25 years plus to pay back ( its complete dribble ) and has since been shelved but the romours went out into the big wide world and its stuck but when u research it and with the rising in energy cost the payback is shorter.
and im not sure if right but what else can u buy that pays for itself and then for the next 25 years makes u money ???the panels have aguarantee of 25 years the type iuse are used on the space station so the manufacture says ..
i wonder what aunit of electric will be in ten years ?? maybe double /treble/etc
u can start a solar of grid system for as little as £200.00 i would say its still alot of money but im sure once u bought a owl energy metre that £200 would have been saved by changing your habits around the house ..
Its an interesting point about the cost.Many people on these Forums will buy a new car for £40Kand the moment it rolls off the forecourt it loses many £Ks, but baulk at the prospect of investing that same amount in solar panels.
But it also seems true that if a scheme gets too popular and it looks like costing the taxman money, it will be scrapped or 're-vamped' no matter how green it may be.
Perhaps when they finally introduce the Carbon Tax (and France is talking of between 3 and 4 centimes per litre as carbon tax on petrol/derv) they will drop VAT on panels and all associated paraphernalia for home generation of electricity.
Please, please, you don't have to laugh quite so much at my suggestion.Stranger things have happened.Not very often but occasionally! data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
You can sell any excess energy generated by your renewable energy installation. So though the initial cost is expensive, cheaper bills and the ability to sell your own energy, could mean that you actually save money over them long term.
You can find out more and view 'buy back tariffs' here:
Sell your own energy - Generate your own energy
Also, check to see if you are eligible for a grant to help with the install costs.
Renewable energy - UK grants for installation - Energy Savings Trust
Clare
The Energy Saving Trust
Energy Saving Trust - Energy Efficiency & Energy Conservation to combat Climate Change
Leon nice set up mate data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
I to have been toying with the idea of going solar for about a year plus and now more seeing that energy bills are going up to even 60% in the future . data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
as its still new to me i was thinking of going the maplins all in one kit (150 watt kit ) £1500.00
a bit dear but a start as i believe i can add more solar panels from a different source and cheaperdata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
I too run a little smart car to as to keep my bills down as every little bit helps .
so what is the best suited panels for the uk weather as i to am in kent .
any help would be excellent !!
delucus
that looks a good kit
everything u need , i would get the kit and ask around at a few car batttery places and seek out some old batteries to add to the system .n a good day of sun that panel will charge that in no time ,, the way i use my off grid is charge in the dayand use at night .. the bigger the bank the better.ill try and take a picture of my off grid stuff today ..it will give u an idea of how to store the stuff in a outside shed etc ..
ill get the makes of my gear and u can price it up im not sure if it will be cheaper but my charge controller can have up to 40amps running through it so u can add alot of panels to it as and when ..
the charge controller batteries and invertor can all go in one box /shed /i have mine in a homebase green small shed ( cost around £70 ) designed for a lawn mower ..
below is a small picture of how the system will work each part can be upgraded or u can buy them seperate