Panasonic 4k HC-VX980 recording in HD

steveuk63

Hi I read with interest a reply dosdan made on Panasonic HC-VXF1 Camcorder: HD Picture Resolution: and quoted "A digital imaging system can only be fully optimised for one resolution"  I am currently looking for a new camera after my pana sd90 died as per previous posts . I have basically narrowed it down to pana HC-V800 or the older 4k HC-VX980 .As i currently do not have a 4k tv the vx980 would be "future proofing " and i would be recording in HD 1080p on it . Do you think I would be better with the v800 as if I am reading it right the 4k vx980 would be a lower resolution (or look grainy ?) when recording in hd ? I am better getting the v800?
They are both about the same price around £400 or do you recommend anything else ?

The SD90 served me really well , lasted many years and provided great video and audio.
many thanks

Terfyn

In theory the 980 should be better. You know my views on the 800 - I like it very much.

I have always felt that it is not just the camera but what you do with it that is important. The quality of the picture is only part of it but the story is still all important. There are so many videos on YT that are just adverts for the camera and have no video interest. A good subject, be it wildlife, an event, family or friends acting, is IMO critical. Just look at the old B&W films, the picture was often quite poor but the story was everything.

chrishull3

It not correct that 4K cameras record inferior HD video far from it,i am surprised that manufactuars still make HD cameras as 4k models offer everything HD ones do plus the extra quality,even my wifes mobile records very good 4K video,if you do get a 4K machine you would not have to record in HD mode as 4K recordings can easily be rendered down to HD mode,the only thing you would need to do that is a pc with enough power to edit 4K but if your pc is not up to it there is software that converts 4K to HD and all your recordings could be stored for the future,good luck anyway.

Kevo

Not quite.  A lot will only record 24, 25 or 30 fps in 4K which is a big difference in quality compared to 50fps which plays a lot smoother especially on moving subjects or panning, plus I hate the 'filmic' look on home videos.
I tend to record in either and i still prefer 1080 50p although on static shots the 4k video is awesome as my recent trip to Peru proved (I shot the Lima and Amazon part in HD 1080 50 and the Sacred Valley/Machu Picchu parts  in 4K30fps, but overall i would love to be able to afford a camera that shoots in 4K 50/60p (maybe next upgrade!).

I use a Panasonic FZ2500 'bridge camera' which wipes the floor with all the consumer Panasonic HD camcorders that I have owned (and still own) previously

chrishull3

Yes the FZ2500 is a great camera i used to have the FZ2000 [same camera]i exchanged it for the Nikon P1000 solely because of its long zoom reach for my wildlife but the Pana has better overall picture quality.We dont agree about your saying A lot will only record 24, 25 or 30A lot will only record 24, 25 or 30 as my main camera the GH5 records all modes in 4K including 50P and will also record 6K photo mode video but i usualy stay with 25P as i find the extra space 50P 4K takes up is not worth it as the 25P on the GH5 is superb.All the best

dosdan

In the post I'm quoted from (Panasonic HC-VXF1 Camcorder: HD Picture Resolution:) I said "fully optimised".

This does not mean that Full FHD from a 4K camera will look less sharper than from a FHD camera. I'd expect it to look sharper because a properly-operating AA filter blurs the image slightly, so that the high-res components of an image are reduced so as not to exceed the Nyquist frequency.  Because, in ADC, sampling above the Nyquist frequency introduces false heterodynes ("aliases") that were not in the original image. The aliases take the form of moiré patterns.  Anti-aliasing filter - Wikipedia

Since there's a CFA on top of the sensor, which would otherwise be colour-blind/monochromatic, these moiré patterns will have false colours. In the CFA, the element spacing of G-to-G is closer than for B-to-B and R-to-R. This, and the slightly longer wavelength of R light means that R suffers most from this colour aliasing.

There's been a craze in AA-less DSLRs. Theoretically you'd need a 130MP sensor for the spacing of the pixels to be close enough together not to require an AA filter aka OLPF (Optical Low-Pass Filter). But most 16MP & 24MP APS-C models have been AA-less for quite a while now due to marketing pressure.  The lack of AA makes them subjectively appear sharper, but if you look closely at fine-detail portions of an image, like the palings in a distant picket fence, you can see the aliasing.

The design of the AA filter works best at a fixed distance between pixels/lines. Change the frame size, e.g switch between 4K & FHD, and the AA design is now sub-optimal.  Whether you'll notice it will depend on what you're shooting.

Also, the quality of the lens in front of the sensor affects an AA imaging system's tendacy to moiré. The sharpness of the lens itself results in a slight optical blurring which can take the place of what the AA-filter does. That's why low MP (16/24MP) AA-less consumer DSLRs won't necessarily be plagued with moiré issues. You need "sharp glass" (a high-quality lens) to invoke it.

https://www.red.com/red-101/resolution-aliasing-motion-capture

RedShark News - How to understand video scaling and framerate conversion - part one

Dan.