Turntable CABLES

BarKohba

Hello

I'm wondering how important are turntable cables for sound quality.

Right now, I'm running a Sony PS-HX500 Turntable with a Goldring E3 cartridge, with the bult in phono-stage BYPASSED, connected to the integrated phono stage of my Yamaha A-S2100 integrated amp.

I don't have a proper phono turntable cable with a ground lead - that's because due to my space setup, the turntable requires a cable of around 2.5-3 meteres - and even the turntable cables I've found at 2m are CRAZY expensive (and I really don't understand why).

What I'm using right now is a shielded RCA Proson cable (3 meters) connected directly to the phono stage (no ground wire). To my surprise/luck, the signal doesn't start to produce an audible "buzz" until turning the volume way up, to slightly above my normal listening volume, so I don't feel like I need to ground it more.

I couldn't find a proper "turntable" ground wire, but I tried using some normal 14AWG copper speaker wire instead, and to my surprise, with it connected to both ground bearings of the turntable and amp, the system produced MORE buzz than without, thus I use it connected only via the RCA Proson shielded RCA.

While I can't say I'm unhappy with the sound/setup, and even though I'd like less buzz it's not really that audible, is there ANY reason for using a proper turntable phono cable with ground wire? Because at the end of the day, my 3m shielded Proson cable costed about 40 euros, and the 2m proper turntable cables I see online (from manufacturers such as Pro-Ject, Audioquest etc) cost 80-100 euros and above.

So what am I missing? Do I need a different type of cable? Is the RCA shielded 3 meter cable I'm using compromises on sound compared to a proper (much much more expensive) turntable cable?

Abacus

A turntable cable is nothing more than a standard RCA cable with a ground wire.
Providing you use a good quality RCA cable (About £10 on Amazon) that is all you need to get sound out, as for the ground, than any decent copper cable will be fine. (Doesn't have to be that thick)
Connecting the ground will be trial and error, if it improves the sound (Reduces the hum) then leave it on, if not leave it off.
The output from a cartridge is very small so requires a large gain in the phono stage and unless you have a really top notch unit there will always be some hum.
As your turntable has an inbuilt phono stage, try this connected into an auxiliary input on the amp, as this may give you a better sound.
What you have done so far is all that is required, just try out the inbuilt phono stage as an extra step.
(NOTE: Make sure you keep the cable well clear of mains cables, or if they do need to cross make sure they do so at 90 deg.
Bill

BarKohba

Ok, so there's no real way to get rid of the extra buzz I assume?

I tried the in-built phono, it really is no match for what the Yamaha A-S2100 has in it. And it's no surprise, considering the turntable (with cartridge) is about 650 euros, and the amp is 3100 euros. Moreover, many reviewers assessed the in-built phono stage of the A-S2100 (yamaha seems to be pretty proud about it, calling it "discreet" on the product's website - and it also has an MM/MC switch) as being an equivalent of a separate ~500 euro external phono stage.

Maybe the hum comes from the crossing of cables - although it does cross the power cable at around 90 degrees, and my power cable is an aftermarket shielded Supra Power Cord.

noiseboy72

The buzz is induced in the cables, so the longer the cable, the more the buzz. 2M is really the maximum length that you can go - even with really good cable and any joints or connections will make things worse.

You could get some really well shielded cable and solder it to the connection point inside the turntable to a pair of phono plugs directly into the amp.

You are doing the right thing by keeping the cable as far away from power and other signal cables as possible.

Your other solution is a standalone phono stage located close to the turntable and then run at line level to the amp. No guarantee it will totally cure the hum, as it could be induced inside the turntable itself. If you remove power to the turntable, does the buzz decrease when you do this?

BlueWizard

We can't be sure of the quality of RCA cable you have, or of the integrity of the connections. Though that said, I would not suspect you would need exceptional quality cable, just not crap cable.

As to the Ground Wire, that connects the chassis of the Turntable with the chassis of the Amp, nothing should flow through the ground wire, but it is necessary to prevent hum.

I have a turntable that has captured RCA Cables so it is difficult to replace them. In my current set up, my turntable is farther away than the Captured Cables will allow, so I simply extended the cables with standard but decent RCA Cable, and for the Ground, so common Bell Wire. This works find for me.

My turntable Earth Ground (the additional wire) has a Fork connector on the end, so I simply crimped a fork connector to the extension wire and used a Nut and Screw to fasten the two forks together. That has been holding tight for years.

I would suggest you check the actual connection on each end, and verify the integrity of your cable and wire. Make sure the connections are clean and tight. Also toggle the Line/Phono Switch a few times to assure that the switch contacts are not dirty.

As to cable, though you can spend a bit more, this is reasonable quality cable -

                                                https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirekt-Amplifiers-AV-Receivers-Analogue-Shielded/dp/B00FQK327M/                       
Notice it comes in a variety of sizes from 0.5m up to 10m.

As a test, you could use a Volt Meter and measure between the Ground Screw of the Turntable and Ground Screw of the amp, and see if you measure a voltage. Frequently this is the cause of ground loops in equipment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ground Loops and Unwanted Hum  Explained.                                                                                                        If found this video that gives a very good explanation of what Ground Loops are and why they occur. It is geared mostly toward PA equipment but the principles are the same. Since this come up often on the forum, I though it might be a valuable video -    Steve/bluewizard                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                www.avforums.com                                                                               
Steve/bluewizard