Unifi Setup
Morning,Need some help with a unifi setup please....
I currently have two AP's (UAP AC PRO and UAP AC LR), the LR is connected directly to the router via ethernet with it own POE, the PRO is downstairs connected via a AV1200 homeplug for ethernet and POE for power. On the LR I get full wifi when I am next it to at 200mbps, however on the PRO when I am next to it I am only getting 40-50mbps. So I think the issue may be the powerline connection.
I presume it would be best to connect the Pro back to the router, in order to do that I would have to run a cable from upstairs to downstairs where the Pro sit, however apart from Cat 6 cable what else would I need if I just want to run one cable downstairs. Would one of these do:
Ubiquiti UniFi Switch 8 Port : US-8-60W (Enterprise Computing > Wireless Networking): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories Buy www.amazon.co.uk
So could a long length of cat6 cable from a switch provide network and power to the Pro? I do need to test the homeplug to rule out a AP setup issues which I will try and get done this weekend.
Thank you Be sure that you are actually connected to the AP you think you are - just because you are "sat next to" an AP doesn't necessarily mean you are connected to it. Temporarily changing the SSID names so they differ (if not already the case) would be one way to achieve this.
I'm not sure what you mean by "full Wi-Fi." Wi-Fi link rates (ever erroneously called "speed") are independent of the link rates up stream of them. Thusly, one could be connected to an AP at a gazzillion bits per second ("Full Wi-Fi") but if the upstream link is poor, then one doesn't observe such rates using things like SpeedTest based out on the Internet.
However, your analysis seems sound - HomePlugs links can be considerable bottlenecks if your mains environment is not up to much and "proper" ethernet over UTP is almost always faster and more reliable.
By way of a test, you could try taking your "bandit" AP and temporarily connect it direct to your router using ethernet - if a cure is effected, then it gives further evidence that your HomePlug link is culpable.
If stringing up cable, it's best to install at least 2. It is highly unlikely that a UTP cable will fail in service, but if it does, it will get you back on the air much more quickly if you already have an alternate in situ. It is surprising how often one finds a use for "just one more" later on. Cable is cheap compared to the time/hassle of installing it. Standing orders to my sparkies are to "always install 2."
If you need "just one more" POE, you might perhaps consider a stand alone inline POE injector - it may be cheaper - basically they are just "wall wart" PSU with some ethernet ports. But a "proper" POE switch is much neater (and could mean you can ditch your existing POE injector if it makes your install neater.)
Watch out for POE versions - there's a few now including some non-standards compliant proprietary ones. Best to check what your AP's require from their datasheets and ensure you get the right version (preferably "802" standards based versions if possible.)
One also has to watch for the power "budget" on a switch. Many switches do not have the capacity for deliver full power POE on all port continuously. Again, check the AP datasheets and see what their power draw is and make sure your switch/injector has the "budget" to avail it. Bear in mind that some device draw more power when starting up that when in continuous operation - though to be honest if you only have two POE devices, it's unlikely you'll run into such a problem. (It's the sort of thing we have to "worry" about in business when hanging a couple of dozen devices on a big enterprise switch!) @mickevh
Thank you as always with great information.
The ap pro has a different ssid so I know I was on the correct link.
I will try connecting it directly to the router to see what I get.
Also points on the cable run have been noted. Hi
Just to update the thead the issue seems to be with the homeplugs. The AP Connected to the router I get full 200 to 220 mbps wifi on my iPhone 7.
The wiring the in the house is about 15 years old, so it is not that old, and the homeplugs are the av1200 ones (TL-PA8030P KIT) which state data transfer of up to 1200mbps, which I am aware would be restricted by various factors.
So is there anyway of ruling out if the problem is with the homeplugs or is defiantly the wiring in the house?
Thank you I'm not a HomePlugs user, plenty here are, but I recall some people saying to test the performance of the plugs themselves one should plug them into a double wall socket (preferably not an extension lead) so they are physically adjacent to each other with the least electrical wiring between them - ie just the socket itself - thereby giving them the best chance of getting their best connection.
That doesn't rule out all interference from noise on the mains circuit, but gives them their best chance to achieve their best capability in your locale. I'd be tempted to leave them in situ for a day or two and monitor them to see if there's an variance and/or any time of day when they are better or worse.
Dimmer switches are reputed to cause problems to HomePlugs. BTW - the 1200mbps (max) "link rate" (ever erroneously called "speed") of the HomePlug is only very loosely related to what you can expect to see when running a "speedtest" over them.
Speedtest doesn't really test the "speed" (link rate) of anything - what it does is transfer a measured amount of data in a measured time and computes a statistical average (in IT we call that "throughput".) Kind of like the trip computer in car comes up with different numbers to the speedometer - they are reporting different things even though they are expressed in the same metric (mph for cars, mbps for data networks.)
If looking at HomePlug performance, I would be more interested in looking at their "cockpit" "dashboard" app or whatever it's called and seeing what rate they sync up at and wouldn't be using a "speedtest". Once I'm familiar with what the plugs are doing at the link rate level, then I'd run some speed tests and see if the speedtest numbers are "in the right ball park" for the link rates I'm seeing albeit that the actual values wouldn't concern me (beyond indicating whether it's fast enough for my needs.)
So, for example, if the plugs are syncing at 200mbps (low I know) and that speedtested at 50-100mbps, it's about what I'd expect for the link rate indicated. Anything above that is a bonus (and likely to be transient due to traffic patterns.)
Conversely, if you are looking for a reliable 200mbps throughput, (speedtest) then I'd be hoping to get the Plugs to sync up at least 500mbps and ideally even better. The other thing is the 1200Mbps is a duplex speed, so if everything was able to max the speed out it would still be limited to 600Mbps.It is naughty to sell like this as switches would be sold as 2000Mbps speed (which technically they are) but we are comparing apples and oranges.
There was another thread where the cockpit software was showing considerably above the actual throughput speed
https://www.avforums.com/styles/avf/logo.og.png Powerline/HomePlug and split consumer unit Powerline communications and split consumer unit. Since Sy Q was installed some 3 months ago I have had endless problems with the mini box freezing and failing with a variety of errors. The mini has been replaced twice and I now have 3 boosters, but still problems. I thought I would try... https://www.avforums.com/styles/avf/logo.og.png www.avforums.com I haven't done a longer exposition of duplex modes for a while, so let's have another go:
"Full-Duplex" means "can send and receive at the same time." e.g. ethernet over UTP can do this.
"Half-Duplex" means "can send OR receive but not at the same time." e.g. Wi-Fi, poweline, (ancient) ethernet over coax and some early ethernet over UTP used to be this way. Ethernet can still "fall back" to half-duplex operation in some circumstances (and it's there for legacy reasons.)
Duplex modes are nothing do to with "speeds" and half-duplex does not mean "divide the link rate by two and that's the effective rate in each direction." It is more nuanced than that. Duplex can have an effect on throughput, but in a a rather roundabout way...
It's kind of like driving down a road with a lane flowing unimpeded in each direction - "full-duplex" - compared to some road works with a single lane with signals controlling the traffic flow so that traffic can only flow one way or the other - "half-duplex" - but not both at the same time. That may reduce they amount of traffic that can be carried in each direction compared to two normal non-conflicting running lanes, but the actually "speed" of the traffic is not changed - it's just that less of it can get through when it's busy. If the traffic levels are low enough that there's no need to queue up for the single lane (and we arrange that the signals always change to green as one approaches) then it makes no difference and we proceed as if the restriction wasn't there. Similarly if all the traffic flows one way. Or the traffic pattern is asymmetric, but the total throughput (in both directions) is low enough that we can arrange passage without conflicts.
To stretch the roads analogy to more than one station - think of an uncontrolled crossroads with no route having priority and only one vehicle at a time can proceed through the junction. We've got four "stations" (ingress/egress routes) and a "common" area (the junction) but it's still half-duplex in that only one route at a time can admit traffic onto the junction and all other routes must wait until it's clear (or we get a collision - which happens in data networking - though they tend to result in the colliding data simply being discarded rather than a pile of crumpled metal that needs to be cleared away.) If traffic levels are low enough and all drivers "play nice" - there''s no conflict and nothing impairs anyone's progress whatever the respective traffic flow on any route. It's only when traffic levels grow to the point that collisions must be avoided that we start to get queuing which thence affects the traffic flows (throughput) - though once we're on the junction, we proceed at whatever "speed" we would have done without the queues.As traffic levels rise to the point at which conflict start to occur, the "throughput" on any given route then reduces. Notice, there's no requirement for any sense of "fairness" as to which route gets selected or balancing of the flow rates "nicely" - the same can happen in data networking.
The principal reasons for the difference between the "link rate" of data networking links (the "speeds" on all the kit, specs, NIC's, and cockpits) and the "throughput" (observed with speed tests, iperfs, copying files, and what most people "mean" when they say "speed,") is more down to the operating paradigm of the technology and in particular things like error correction and management traffic (which you don't "see" in your speed tests.)
To use a completely made up examplar, if micknet runs at 50mbps "link rate" (as reported in my cockpit) and it uses a very large amount of error correction such that for ever bit of "user" data there's an accompanying bit for FEC, then the throughput I observe with a speedtest is 25mbps. Most real data networking technologies are worse that this as they cannot transmit continuously. Even ethernet at it's very best is only about 97% efficient, Wi-Fi is of the order of 55%-75% efficient and HomePlug/Powerline is regularly cited at 45-55% - though the the latter two, are highly dependent on signalling conditions and the amount of forward error connection and retransmits required (ethernet doesn't have error correction or retransmits.)
Speedtests (and iperf, NetIO, and copying a file an timing on a watch, etc.) take no account of any of the underlying technology including it's operating paradigm, duplex modes, error correction, retransmit rates, management overheads, or anything I've discussed here - they only report what they observe at the highest levels in the networking "protocol stack" (this isn't just nerd speak - there's a reference model for data networking called the "ISO 7 Layer Model" which is widely adopted for anyone who want to research the detail further.)
Speedtests simply copy a measured amount of data of a measured time and compute a statistical average. In the same way as the trip computer in a car computes average speed without taking any account of the prevailing road traffic condition, speed limits, velocity, weather, road works, junction count (and complexity) the Saturday morning Ikea queue or anything else. It's the roughest of rough guides. Speedtest certainly has it's uses, but it is to data networking what a "wet finger in the air" (versus a thermometer) is to temperature measurement. @mickevh I am not sure what you are trying to say by your post, but you have as always written a good explanatory post.
However, powerlines are not advertised at their link speed, they are advertised as their full-duplex speed that is double the link rate.The max a single direction speedtest could do forgetting about overheads and technology losses is half the advertised amount. Thanks - that's news to me; in the past they were sold on the basis on link rate.
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