Upgrade or Replace ?? - 1986 Linn system - LP12/Ittok/LK1/LK280 & Mission 770's
Hi, I’m new to this forum so please bear with meIn 1986 I purchased my pride and joy Linn hi-fi system, used for decades but sadly packed away for 15 years.
>> I am now looking to upgrade/ replace and spend money where there will be some real gain, but not just because it is now 33 years old!Neither do I want to waste money on the old kit if I should really start again?
>> The system is a Linn Sondek LP12, upgraded 1993 to Valhalla and Ittok arm. Amplifiers Linn LK1 & LK2 (upgraded to LK280) were Linn’s first venture into amplifiers. The speakers are Mission Freedom 770's.
Can you help please....
>> Talking to my local Audio T, they recommend starting with service and upgrade of the LP12, not sure if this will beMC or MM cartridge.
Connectivity to other parts of the house (via Sonos?) is important,so maybe the amps need a rethink?
I want to stream a quality service like Tidal, buy a new CD player and consider a DAC?
This will all be in a dedicated music room adjoining a large TV lounge with quality cinema surround sound in there,. So I will likely also want to feed the hi-fi sources in to that system just for music.
>> My thinking to start this off- Upgrade the LP12. I have considered the Naim Supernait 3 integrated amp, for speakers Dali Opticon 6 or Focal Aria 926? But I am not applying any particular compatibility logic to any of this so feel free to redirect me.
I am open to all proposals - I am prepared to spend the money, but I want to do this once and properly.
Any advice to steer me in the right direction for a whole system approach and not just buy/upgrade piecemeal would be very much appreciated.
Many thanks Hi Everyone,
I posted this question about how to upgrade my 30 years old Linn system a few weeks back and so far no replies.
Sorry it was not a short, quick description, but I tried to outline the complete current system spec and my goals. I am willing to spend and upgrade where necessary - even the whole system - but I am unclear where to start.Any feedback and help would be very much appreciated
Many thanks I feel the best advice is to go for an audition to see whether (to your ears) hi-fi has really improved at this level before you upgrade. One thing I will add is that you have some really nice electronics and good electronics usually stays good with failure being the only real reason for changing/upgrading
As sound is so subjective too, this makes it even harder with people helping and with many years experience, I feel an upgrade on the turntable isn't bad advice, but you need to hear whats available with a couple of your favourite vinyl just see if you can better what you have with certain parts of your system I think the advice so far is pretty good. I would -
1) get the LP12 serviced and set up properly
2) choose a decent cartridge for it (quite a few to choose from 2M bronze, AT-440ML etc.)
3) for streaming Bluesound Node 2i would probably fit ok or may be Cambridge CXN - but you may need to look into tidal as iirc the highest quality use MQA encoding so you may need a streamer that decodes that.
Edit - the node 2i does support MQA so looks like you are ok with this.
4) assuming the amps are working fine then go and audition speaker and possibly amp combinations, if you are looking at Naim then Focal are the same company and a PMC are often paired with them. Hi ShanePJ - sorry for the delayed response - thanks so much for your reply to my original post,, much appreciated, really.
I am in a small dilemma with which way to go with all this and your advice is very encouraging.
You said .....
I am pleased you think that and agree that...
Turntable -Linn LP12 upgrade and new cartridge are definitely worth the 'investment'. Hopefully it is a solid basis for a quality front end brought into this millenium.
But for the Linn LK1/LK280 amps, see photos attached, I would appreciate your/anyone's true opinion on whether to stick with them or not?? As stated they were Linn's first venture in 1985(?) and to be honest I never read much grand about them, despite their price. The push button - volume is quite lumpy in operation, the remote that cost an extra £50 (then) is very crude and ineffective. It has inbuilt MC & MM inputs but no CD (had to use Aux instead), but I realise that none of that makes it a bad piece of kit.
Streaming etc - Now, intending to stream through this old Linn LK1 amp, I don't know if there are sufficients inputs/ connectivity for all this modern day kit?
Scratched LK1 - see top of the LK1, the matt black painted top cover is scratched quite badly, can it be refurbed properly?.
Some reassurance on keeping these or direction towards buying the Naim Supernait or any other quality amp would be much appreciated.
Speakers - the Missions 770's I feel are due for a change and I will try them against the Focal or others once we get the LP12 upgraded.
System Demo - once Audio T have upgraded my turntable, should I take the rest of my kit along to try against modern offerings? Or how would you do it?
Once again many thanks I have to agree with upgrading the Linn, you would have a fine front end for years to come!
I don't know much about streaming and all that jazz , don't do it myself being almost an exclusive vinyl listener, but I'm sure Audio T can advise on that ... there are many new amps and speaker combos out there that'll do you proud!
Ultimately of course you can try and sell off the Linn amps and the Missions ... Good Luck! Ugg10, thanks likewise for a good positive reply.
See my reply to ShanePJ, much also applies here.
I totally agree and understand points 1) LP12 upgrade and 2) new cartridge.
Your point 3) .......Sorry, I'm a "Novice Member", just starting to get some of the acronyms and jargon - but my ears are normally the best judge.
Below is what Richer Sounds specified as replacements/upgrades against my old kit.
Cambridge AXR100 Lunar Grey AmplifierCambridge CXN V2 Silver Wireless StreamingCambridge CXC Silver CD PlayerFocal ARIA 926 Noyer Walnut Floorstander Speakers (pair)
Streaming - The CXN that you suggest is among them, the Bluesound Node 2i looks good, but isn't it more of a parallel with Sonos ? You mentioned Tidal using MQA, on looking up Tidal they refer to Sonos as ........
" TIDAL is the perfect match for Sonos, streaming music in lossless, high fidelity audio quality, and ensuring the best sound experience possible."
Maybe I'm off track, is Spotify or another good enough?
The Cambridge CXN V2 is £800 vs. £500 for the Node 2i. I will get both Richer and Audio T to demo their recommendations.
I have never been a vinyl/tape/CD or streaming person - just whatever mediums/formats come along through the decades, not ditching any one of them for the other. - it's all music after all!
I'll ask at the stores about MQA/Tidal compatibility.
Thanks for the advice. I'll start with this part first and it seems you have truly fallen out of love with this side of your system. So I agree, once you have upgraded the turntable, yes its time to start auditing new electronics. I would suggest trying to audition Cyrus, Electro Companiet, Byrston. The only reason I say this is that I saw my uncle who loves hi-fi passed this route from Linn electronics and each time he enjoyed a step up in performance. Not everything he purchased was brand new as some of these toys have quite an elevated price tag, but once heard, it's very difficult to better.
Regarding Streaming, It seems that anything that works with Roon seems to be the way forward. Now there are many different ways to get Roon Labs working from having your own Media Server to pre-built Roon products taking the worry out of that side
The speaker side will be as important as the electronics and although I'm aware of the electronics side of my uncles purchases, the Speakers were an altogether more difficult process for him as every step he took, he found that the speakers became his suffering bane. So do be aware that finding that sound you enjoy and when you hear new parts, it can become a bit of a journey over quite a few years.
I know my uncles system is one of the best systems I've ever heard and trust me I've heard some great system in my time
The last piece of advice I will add is really do trust your own ears as the system is for you and no-one else For streaming (as opposed to listening to files on a local NAS), and being a"bear of little brain", this is my understanding of the current market -
1) Services
These are akin to your CD/LP/Cassette i.e. where the music data is stored in a digital format. These services then provide the data streamed over the internet to your house. The data can be streamed in a number of different formats but typically there are three formats - compressed data streamed at a lower bitrates, CD quality lossless compression, high quality digital formats. In reality Spotify's highest rate is 320kbps compared with CD quality (16/44.1) at 1400kbps and high quality (24/96) at 3000kbps. So you can see that there is potentially a 10x increase in the data streamed between the different providers. Some services are free but typically have limited function and have adverts (Spotify standard for example) but typically there is a monthly charge for the services (£10-20 typically) with the higher quality services costing more plus there are family packs available for multiple users. The benefit is you get access to c.50m tracks and so can enjoy a wide variety of music at the push of a button (typically on an android/OS/PC device). Finally, the format that the data is streamed in differs between services which is where the MQA comes in, this is a particular "file format" that need to be unpacked before being converted into analogue sound. There is a good comparison of streaming services on WIKI if you do a search but Spotify (no HQ version), Tidal and Amazon music HD (new service with some limitation on players) would be the front runners.
2) Streamer
Now, the data coming over the internet needs to be read, unpacked and the 1's and 0's converted into an analogue wiggly volts signal. This is the streamers job. So, I would look for a streamer that is as compatible with as many providers as is possible, hence the MQA comment and the ability to decode streams up to 24/192 if possible. Up to this point, the unpacking of the data stream, should be pretty much the same for all streamers i.e.it is a software process it is the next step that makes a difference in the sound (excluding the different data densities). The streamer then either outputs a digital stream to an external dac (sometimes integrated into the amplifier) or carried out the digital to analogue conversion internally and outputs a standard analogue line level signal. If you are going for the former, using a DAC then the Chromecast Audio at £20 and the Teufel/Raumfeld Connector at £140 are all you will need, you then can choose a DAC that suits your needs. If you are wanting to use the analogue output then it is worth looking at a streamer that has a quality dac and output circuit so that you get the best analogue signal for the amp to work with, which is where the Node 2i, CXN, Audiolab 6000N, 851N, NAD C658 etc. come in, noting that some of these can also be used a digital (and possibly analogue) preamps as well.
So, as an example I use a Spotify Premium with Chrome Cast Audio (£20), optical digital out into a separate dac that has preamp capability into active speakers. But there are many ways to skin a cat depending on your budget, other source requirements and aesthetic tastes.
On another note, I see you have identified the Cambridge CXC, just to check you understand this is a CD transport only i.e. it only has digital outputs and needs another piece of equipment with a digital input to use it e.g. separate dac, streamer with a digital input, integrated amp with built in dac etc. Where are you based? There are few renowned LP12 technicians based around the country and it might be worth seeking them out. They can take you through the upgrade options ( I think there are quite a lot of things you can change) and demonstrate their effect. From my understanding, for some, there is value in having non-modified/upgraded original LP12's.
They will likely be dealers with kit that people tend to like at the end of the LP12 so it would be sensible to demo there too.
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