I don't have a problem with what you are saying on the topics you are discussing in fact I welcome your experience and expertise, and some of the discussion has been interesting, but there is a end goal to your posts and because you don't mention it at the outset, it makes me feel like I am being played.
If you want people to come to your upcoming forum members open day, then just ask them. Personally I would love to hear the systems you describe but as I said I feel a bit uncomfortable about how you are advertising it.
Adam
I'm sorry if you fell my methods are underhand but I have found that most people in the trade are very complacent about audio quality.
I genuinely feel that most retailers and custom installers aren't that concerened about getting the best sound quality from a system - it's all about selling kit and making money.
I've always been very interested in audio quality and dismissed the conventional aproach taken to hifi for instance years ago, as time and again it was proven to me that buying better kit simply didnt give better results in many rooms. The experts who I have had training from have taught me about the science behind deisgning better systems and it's this that I've tried to convey in my posts.
What I've tried to do is start by pointing out that buying good hifi or home cinema will in no way give good results. Once this is a given I'd like to look into other methods that will deliver optimal quality.
So far most of the responses to what I've said has been to question my motives - which is fine - I'm here to sell things - but does anyone want to question the content of what I'm saying and the results it achieves?
Yep agreed. But by virtue of your language you are doing the same thing yourself it appears.
Took us a while Rob, but we are where Id imagine wed end up. I have no problem with people demoing or happy customers raving about your systems but your text in the OP makes it look like it is the only solution due to your extensive experience, it is just one solution I have to say. A solution none the less but only one way of doing it.
Your digs about other dealers & installers will only denigrate this thread further. Enough from me data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7.
Further back (before the debate on advertiser presence) we had comments like:
I made a remark to you on the sub forum about using physically small satellites for the stereo speaker (not "small" as in 80Hz crossover), that you didn't seem to understand there either.
Now I don't come from "steely dan", and I have no idea how pop music is supposed to sound (even live it's been through electronics rather than being purely acoustic), but I know very well how what I listen to sounds in the concert hall and opera theatre. I know that there's no way I can get soloists, a chorus and a full symphony orchestra in the comparatively minuscule space at the end of my lounge.
This doesn't however make attempting to achieve "the closest approach to the original sound" irrelevant, even though the entire width of an orchestra is being compressed into a few meters (even a string quartet uses more real room). Art music recordings are made with the sole goal of being "the closest approach to the original sound". They do not "flick any switches on an effect console" - the critics and purchasers don't want artificial sound. When a recording accentuates the Viola d'Amore in a Janacek recording to make it audible, it's normally clearly stated in the accompanying documentation!
Nevertheless, when I listen to a recording or watch a BD/DVD of an opera recorded in the Zürich Opera house or Covent Gardens, I can apply experience (a bit rusty with Covent Gardens). But even when I listen to recordings made in venues I've never attended, I can still apply experience to know reasonably well how the sound should be and to hear the venue through the recording. Needless to say, "does it sound like the real thing" is very much my goal, and - probably incorrectly - it is also what I assume others are trying to achieve within their budgets, and why I tend to react poorly to posts asking for a sort of sound that clearly is at odds with that target (overblown bass, rears that are as loud as the front, warm, smooth - you get the idea).
If you have another apporach to achieving accurate sound reproduction in a room I'd love to hear it.
I've tried the conventional routes and it doesnt work sonically or measurably. I think that you dismissing what I'm saying without hearing one of the systems I have set up says it all.
Hi Mark
I'm not really sure what you are saying? Is it that sub/sat systems give over blown bass etc.?
If so I'd say there no need for that to be the case even though when you usually hear them this is generally exactly how they are set up. If so surely it's the set up that's at fault?
Thanks for your suggestions. It's been said I have all the subtlety of a flying brick!
As you've probably gathered I'm no diplomat but at least you've picked up that although I make my living from selling hifi I am sincere and enthusiastic.
The things I'm saying are very challenging and obviously this is going to make me unpopular with many people. So far I have found the hifi and home cinema trade largely unreceptive to what I have to say, so I have started focusing on consumers. If the dems I have done in the last month and anything to go by, I'm very happy that at least now I'm talking to people who give a dam about sound quality.
I'm happy to share my experience in the audio industry with people as I think my "journey" will illustrate how and why I have come up with the conclusions I have. What I thought was more interesting for most people is what is really required to provide good sound quality which is something I have tried to lay out in my 6 threads.
It looks as if I've possibly already said too much, however at least I hope this has challenged the old fashionsed approach that what you need is a better widget to get better audio. Ultimately however I hope I will be judged on the sound quality of the systems I can demonstrate. They are far more accurate than other alternatives which I'm sure anyone who hears them will agree. The question is will people bother coming or will they right off what I'm saying because it's at odds with the conventional wisedom?
I agree that you haven't understood what I'm saying data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7. Try to read it as a comment rather than looking for an attack or a dismissal.
I am not definitely not dismissing room treatment, and I haven't made any carte-blanche claims about any single setup type. I'm commenting on your methodology and approach towards the issues.
Thats the way I feel too. We have had our own heated discussions in the past but on this subject we firmly agree.
There are many valued posters who are also dealers on this forum. They give their input without reference to their own stocklist and develop a level of integrity by giving impartial advice and that is definitely welcome.
It's already given me the thought that it's time to quit these discussions if this is the way it's going. New forum members will be none the wiser, but it's worth remembering that it was contributions from long term posters that made this forum work.
Oh yes, by the way, doesn't matter what room acoustic treatments you apply. It still boils down to the 'fact' that you cant improve on an iPod into a guitar amp for real live music, or better still hire me to play drums in your lounge. Come and listen for yourself, live drumming that sounds exactly like live drumming data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
How interesting. What are these methods? Who are these experts? Why is normal marketing mumbo jumbo any different from what you are doing here?
I don't like posts like this popping up, it reads like a pamphlet for some dodgy religeon, and your demeanour is sycophantic.