@Ugg10and @dollag - thanks for that. I didn't get flamed, as feared, so maybe there's something in this after all.
I guess there'll always be a price to pay for such an inexpensive amp, in this case the possibility of some fan noise and a less polished sound than a consumer amp. I think it could potentially be something I'd be prepare to try in view of the gulf in cost between (say) the Crown products and the Yamaha A S1100 and the fact that all I probably really need is a decent power supply without any the bells and whistles.
If I were to go Crown, would the 1002 suffice (215W), or would I be better off with the more expensive 1502 (300W)?
For not much more money, why not look at the emotiva bassX a300 power amp.
great distortion numbers and a much better snr than the crown.
It’s plenty clean and powerful enough for the pmc’s
the transformer in it is gigantic.
I used one last year and was blown away how will it controlled my speakers
@dollag - I've looked at this product already (see earlier post re concerns about reliability).
fair enough.
I personally haven’t had any issues or heard of any so?
my arcam amps have caused me much more headache than my emotiva.
Tbf pro amps do not have the best track record for reliability either.
Interesting thread.I'm also starting to agonise if I go for actives having never even known about them till relatively recently.
Various things concern me, including the money is paying for electronics in each the speaker rather than a separate receiver/amp (which I have) and also having to turn them off/on for music!Also of course they're just "different".
I say this half as a joke but as to the "no taller than a ruler".Well I'm demoing Neumann 310's right now and they're amazing compared the floorstanders I've had for nigh on 20 years.The Neumann 310 also passed my Mrs' looks test (other actives failed) even without grills and are no taller than a standard 30cm ruler.Of course they are wide ;-) They also work "next" to the wall (see below).
/proxy.php?image=https://static-neumann.s3.amazonaws.com/img/1289/product_detail_x1_desktop_KH-310-A-D-L_Neumann-Studio-Monitor_M.png&hash=66177800c57f605b5ccfb7db8b7aeb80&return_error=1 KH 310 A L G KH 310 A -- Nearfield Monitor,Up to 6 m (18 ft),Down to 34 Hz,Down to 52 Hz,Down to 57 Hz,Editing Suite,Domestic Environment,Home Studio,Professional Recording Studio,Up to 4 m (12 ft),Up to 3 m (9 ft),Broadcast - Sennheiser Discover True Sound /proxy.php?image=https://en-de.neumann.com/assets/favicon-9308c3d07928cfd0ed0d62ea25f0ce048c430331a3becb87a97f8feb70b021ad.ico&hash=0c105dfa5aab7d3b14fd9c3a1103cd03&return_error=1 en-de.neumann.com
Have to hand my demo unit back shortly so I was listening to music with the Mrs.Going from the Neumann back to my Missions 702e's she commented that "that's how I'm used to listening to music and it's fine, but now I know it can sound so much better".
For sub ruler size there are the Neumann 120a which is what I was originally recommended but their range is 52hz - 21khz/-3db and I wanted something a little deeper... and well something more substantial.
/proxy.php?image=https://static-neumann.s3.amazonaws.com/img/1171/product_detail_x1_desktop_KH-120-A-D-Left_Neumann-Studio-Monitor_M.png&hash=52bb25dd9af8fb0464d54fe03a9e229f&return_error=1 KH 120 A G EU KH 120 A G -- Nearfield Monitor,Up to 4 m (12 ft),Down to 52 Hz,Down to 57 Hz,Computer Desktop,Editing Suite,Domestic Environment,Home Studio,Broadcast,Professional Recording Studio,Up to 3 m (9 ft) - Sennheiser Discover True Sound /proxy.php?image=https://en-de.neumann.com/assets/favicon-9308c3d07928cfd0ed0d62ea25f0ce048c430331a3becb87a97f8feb70b021ad.ico&hash=0c105dfa5aab7d3b14fd9c3a1103cd03&return_error=1 en-de.neumann.com
Finally this won't be exclusive to the Neumann 310a but someone mentioned you'd lose control with Actives.... well the Neuman have bass/mid/treple controls.Where I set mine up the recommended bass setting is -5db and that made a world of difference.
Good luck deciding!
@dollag - I know you can't always go on what's on the internet, but there's quite a few reports of issues with the Emotiva amp (fan noises, hissing, screeching, some even dying after a few weeks). Enough to put me off, I'm afraid. Haven't seen anything of the sort in relation to the Crown, but maybe I've just not looked hard enough yet!
I'm also acutely aware that reliability is a bit of a crap shoot. As posted earlier, I learned this personally with my 5.1 set up, which cost quite a bit of money but still caused problems. I'm not expecting guaranteed reliability, but I'll be doing my best to avoid any product which is known to have been problematic if I can.
Of course I totally understand your position. I would suggest however to look at a lot of owners from here who have emotiva’s and use them daily.
I believe the numbers of reported faults reflect the amount of units sold and in the USA, where the reports your reading are likely from, outsell pretty much any other manufacturer. They are pretty big out there.
A company like arcam, who sell very small numbers in comparison still get a lot of issues which is actually pretty frightening
If you want reliability, go for a Bryston. They last a lifetime (literally).
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, though perhaps I simply missed it.
How much MONEY to you have to spend?
- Pre-Amp/Amp/Receiver = £???
- Source (CD, Turntable, Streaming) = £???
- Speakers = £???
Every conversation should start with BUDGET.
Next Features - What specifically do you need?
- Network Streaming (seems so)
- Phono In
- Sub Out
- Tone Controls
- Other
What other equipment will you need?
- CD Player
- Turntable
- Streaming (seems - yes)
- Speakers
- Other
Resolving these issues will narrow the field to more specific equipment.
The Yamaha WXC-50 is a very nice Streamer, but a basic Pre-Amp. I has one analog RCA/Aux Input, one Optical, and one Network In. Is that enough to serve your needs?
The Class-D Power Amp most often used and recommended by Z-Review are the Crown XLS -
Product Search - Studiospares Studiospares www.studiospares.com
The Lowest Cost Model (XLS-1002, 215w/ch (8 ohms)) is £424 -
/proxy.php?image=https://studiospares.s3.amazonaws.com/p/l/243100.jpg&hash=6ac4750f328ccc0554bf9ead6f7925af&return_error=1 Crown XLS 1002 Drivecore Power Amp The Crown XLS Series are engineered to meet any demanding audio requirements... www.studiospares.com
That is £675 for the Pre/Pwr combo.
That is a workable solution, but ... the Yamaha RN803 Network Receiver with DAC, DAB/DAB , 100w/ch, Room-EQ, Full Bass Management is £500 currently from Richer Sounds and others-
/proxy.php?image=https://www.richersounds.com/media/catalog/product/c/c/ccdbde46913e15fbd77da0ca76183ac335b00e9e_400359.jpg?width=265&height=265&canvas=265:265&quality=80&bg-color=255,255,255&fit=bounds&hash=e24adfe2e4c256604b589e38a2baa8f7&return_error=1 Yamaha RN803D (Black) Feature-packed, without compromising on sound, the Yamaha RN803D delivers the best of both worlds. ToP-ART concept for the finest sound qualityDeveloped directly from Yamaha’s Top-ART (Total Purity Audio Reproduction Technology) concept, the R-N803D is designed to deliver the best sound quality... /proxy.php?image=https://www.richersounds.com/media/favicon/stores/1/favicon.png&hash=87751a938f6b251743c1f1b38498088a&return_error=1 www.richersounds.com
/proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/files/C1E26402B6E14F0B8325BCB287DBB992_12073_3400x1521_6a2dddfc2d92b48d6e333230700ec84a.jpg&hash=3b0d291e8599e4efc8feff8f46c65d83&return_error=1 MusicCast R-N803D - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland Created by tradition and progress /proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/common/images/favicon.ico&hash=a5ba3a645ec90f0bff40dc48417642f6&return_error=1 uk.yamaha.com
If you are an Apple Fanboy, perhaps not, the RN803 will do Apple Airplay, but not Apple Airplay 2.
The Yamaha AS801 (£589) amp with improved DAC (32b/384k DSD) is a good amp for the money, also with a solid 100w/ch and USB-PC.
Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Amplifier Yamaha A-S801 /proxy.php?image=https://petertyson.co.uk/media/favicon/default/icon_6.jpg&hash=7b9ff3f2362fbf11a6e981bd0da2c574&return_error=1 petertyson.co.uk
Combine that with the WXC-50 (£250) for Network Streaming and you are set.
Yamaha WXC-50 MusicCast Stereo Streaming Processor - Streaming / Networking - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists Yamaha WXC-50 MusicCast Stremaing Hi-Fi Stereo Processor w/ Bluetooth connectivity enabling you to stream music in more ways then every before /proxy.php?image=https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/asset/favicon-16x16.png?1573568961&hash=d7398872604b6cf8ad8320257d405f3b&return_error=1 www.audiovisualonline.co.uk
/proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/files/AE1CFFA62B4F443CB1FC7FFD52EB80F5_12073_740x579_333203c80a6cea31a80d1d732f71a646.jpg&hash=2ac76040de02ffeb4c29d165efe1a701&return_error=1 MusicCast WXC-50 - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland The WXC-50 is a new-concept audio component that goes beyond conventional audio thinking. It let you access a wide variety of audio content such as music from streaming services or stored on a smartphone, and enjoy high quality sound and style thanks to the ability to network with Yamaha’s... /proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/common/images/favicon.ico&hash=a5ba3a645ec90f0bff40dc48417642f6&return_error=1 uk.yamaha.com
Yamaha AS801 Yamaha WXC-50 = £839
If you want lower cost Streaming, Yamaha makes the WXAD-10 (£120) -
Yamaha WXAD-10 MusicCast Wireless Streaming Adapter - Wireless Accessories - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists Simply connect the WXAD-10 to your current audio system, and make your whole system smart! Wireless music playback with Bluetooth and Airplay, music streaming services, and more are yours to enjoy like never before. /proxy.php?image=https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/asset/favicon-16x16.png?1573568961&hash=d7398872604b6cf8ad8320257d405f3b&return_error=1 www.audiovisualonline.co.uk
Combined with the AS801, the total would be £709.
/proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/files/a-s801_index_3188x3188_2aab9d3cd0757f507e9dbdaccad95834.jpg&hash=6d05a7c09477ee656d972bf0f413cde1&return_error=1 A-S801 - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland With high sound quality ToP-ART circuitry and high stability construction, this integrated amplifier delivers superior musicality and powerful sound. And by incorporating advances like a USB DAC function, it fully supports the latest high resolution sound formats. /proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/common/images/favicon.ico&hash=a5ba3a645ec90f0bff40dc48417642f6&return_error=1 uk.yamaha.com
/proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/files/9E4B21DEEFB64669812E551FCC88B234_12073_5000x3625_e468fecaa576f333e2c88ab5d2dcbfd8.jpg&hash=6c426e734337755081a9385e93975037&return_error=1 MusicCast WXAD-10 - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland Simply connect the WXAD-10 to your current audio system, and make your whole system smart! Wireless music playback with Bluetooth® and Airplay®, music streaming services, and more are yours to enjoy ― like never before. It’s also compatible with Yamaha’s wireless music system MusicCast, so you... /proxy.php?image=https://uk.yamaha.com/en/common/images/favicon.ico&hash=a5ba3a645ec90f0bff40dc48417642f6&return_error=1 uk.yamaha.com
The BUDGET and the FEATURE set will narrow the focus to a smaller range of possible equipment.
Just a few thoughts. Sorry if I missed something.
Steve/bluewizard
@BlueWizard - thanks for chipping in. First post states a budget of £3200 for speakers, amp, CD player, sub. Kit is for CD playing and internet radio.
Since I first posted, I've splurged on some PMC Twenty 21's. Sub will probably be a BK 400. CD either a Marantz CD6006 SE or a transport (Audiolab maybe).
It's the rest I'm trying to figure out...